Problems with redrawing waveforms
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- KVRAF
- 1777 posts since 30 Dec, 2012
Like I said, this thread is 3 years old so it's not really the same issue anymore. There have been three versions of the DAW since then with literally thousands of code changes.
Can you let us know what exact version of the DAW you're using, on what OS and what software architecture? (Pre W9 had both 32 & 64 bit variants).
We've not been able to replicate the problem and I don't think it can be that widespread or we'll have heard more about it...
Can you also post the "Temporary Directory" location as I requested so I can see if there's anything odd about it. There's a chance it may be a system temp directory that is getting periodically deleted.
Is there a chance there's another program that's modifying the audio files on disk? If there is, this would cause Waveform to dump the current cache and rebuild.
Does this happen when the waveforms reach a certain size? You mentioned 16 tracks of about an hour long. What if you only have one track an hour long? Does the same thing happen? (I do this regularly when recording DJ mixes and have never seen a problem on my Mac).
We need to narrow down a bit when the problem kicks in and on what systems and with what hard drive space available and what other software running etc. before we have a chance of solving it.
Cheers
Can you let us know what exact version of the DAW you're using, on what OS and what software architecture? (Pre W9 had both 32 & 64 bit variants).
We've not been able to replicate the problem and I don't think it can be that widespread or we'll have heard more about it...
Can you also post the "Temporary Directory" location as I requested so I can see if there's anything odd about it. There's a chance it may be a system temp directory that is getting periodically deleted.
Is there a chance there's another program that's modifying the audio files on disk? If there is, this would cause Waveform to dump the current cache and rebuild.
Does this happen when the waveforms reach a certain size? You mentioned 16 tracks of about an hour long. What if you only have one track an hour long? Does the same thing happen? (I do this regularly when recording DJ mixes and have never seen a problem on my Mac).
We need to narrow down a bit when the problem kicks in and on what systems and with what hard drive space available and what other software running etc. before we have a chance of solving it.
Cheers
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- KVRist
- 100 posts since 23 Jan, 2014
Pleaaaase !!!!!!!
I'm working on a new live album with 48 tracks and many plug-ins.
It lasts about 2 hours.
Each time I reboot the computer, Waveform recalculates all waveforms !
As said before, It's just impossible to work in these conditions !!!
Especially when I have clients who pay in front of the screen.
ProTools, Logic, Digital Performer, Cubase…… No problem with these softwares !
Pleasssssse ! We need a really quick fix !
I'm working on a new live album with 48 tracks and many plug-ins.
It lasts about 2 hours.
Each time I reboot the computer, Waveform recalculates all waveforms !
As said before, It's just impossible to work in these conditions !!!
Especially when I have clients who pay in front of the screen.
ProTools, Logic, Digital Performer, Cubase…… No problem with these softwares !
Pleasssssse ! We need a really quick fix !
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- KVRAF
- 1777 posts since 30 Dec, 2012
You haven't answered any of the questions in my post immediately above yours so I don't really have anything to go on.
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- KVRist
- 100 posts since 23 Jan, 2014
Ohhhh excuse me ! I wrote too fast. I really would have thought many other persons would have experienced that.
I copy your message and answer to each point so. I start my answers with my first name Tony. Thanks
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Like I said, this thread is 3 years old so it's not really the same issue anymore. There have been three versions of the DAW since then with literally thousands of code changes.
Can you let us know what exact version of the DAW you're using, on what OS and what software architecture? (Pre W9 had both 32 & 64 bit variants).
Tony - I use the latest version of Waveform (64 bits only) on a PC, Windows 10 Pro.
We've not been able to replicate the problem and I don't think it can be that widespread or we'll have heard more about it…
Tony - Since my beginnings with Tracktion 4, I've always had the problem on 3 different computers. Always PC's and with 32 bits versions too.
Can you also post the "Temporary Directory" location as I requested so I can see if there's anything odd about it. There's a chance it may be a system temp directory that is getting periodically deleted.
Tony - Indeed, I thought It could be the problem, especially with cleaning software, etc… So, I changed the default location of the temp folder many times. On the desktop, on another totally empty hard drive, on the hard drive where I record my projects. The problem remains the same.
Is there a chance there's another program that's modifying the audio files on disk? If there is, this would cause Waveform to dump the current cache and rebuild.
Tony - I don't think so. I just have Advanced Systemcare 11 installed but it doesn't work if I don't tell it to do so.
Does this happen when the waveforms reach a certain size? You mentioned 16 tracks of about an hour long. What if you only have one track an hour long? Does the same thing happen? (I do this regularly when recording DJ mixes and have never seen a problem on my Mac).
Tony - I just precise I work on a real hard drive, not a SSD. Totally dedicated to my audio projects. I've just reopened some really light projects, 5 stereo tracks of 2 minutes each, the same problem. The same with an old project with two mono tracks.
It seems weird because once all is calculated, I just have to reboot and it recalculates again really often. But not each time ??
I don't think It could be an other software doing that so quickly. I precise too that I don't use another DAW.
We need to narrow down a bit when the problem kicks in and on what systems and with what hard drive space available and what other software running etc. before we have a chance of solving it.
Tony - Thanks for your help.
Cheers
I copy your message and answer to each point so. I start my answers with my first name Tony. Thanks
--------------------------------
Like I said, this thread is 3 years old so it's not really the same issue anymore. There have been three versions of the DAW since then with literally thousands of code changes.
Can you let us know what exact version of the DAW you're using, on what OS and what software architecture? (Pre W9 had both 32 & 64 bit variants).
Tony - I use the latest version of Waveform (64 bits only) on a PC, Windows 10 Pro.
We've not been able to replicate the problem and I don't think it can be that widespread or we'll have heard more about it…
Tony - Since my beginnings with Tracktion 4, I've always had the problem on 3 different computers. Always PC's and with 32 bits versions too.
Can you also post the "Temporary Directory" location as I requested so I can see if there's anything odd about it. There's a chance it may be a system temp directory that is getting periodically deleted.
Tony - Indeed, I thought It could be the problem, especially with cleaning software, etc… So, I changed the default location of the temp folder many times. On the desktop, on another totally empty hard drive, on the hard drive where I record my projects. The problem remains the same.
Is there a chance there's another program that's modifying the audio files on disk? If there is, this would cause Waveform to dump the current cache and rebuild.
Tony - I don't think so. I just have Advanced Systemcare 11 installed but it doesn't work if I don't tell it to do so.
Does this happen when the waveforms reach a certain size? You mentioned 16 tracks of about an hour long. What if you only have one track an hour long? Does the same thing happen? (I do this regularly when recording DJ mixes and have never seen a problem on my Mac).
Tony - I just precise I work on a real hard drive, not a SSD. Totally dedicated to my audio projects. I've just reopened some really light projects, 5 stereo tracks of 2 minutes each, the same problem. The same with an old project with two mono tracks.
It seems weird because once all is calculated, I just have to reboot and it recalculates again really often. But not each time ??
I don't think It could be an other software doing that so quickly. I precise too that I don't use another DAW.
We need to narrow down a bit when the problem kicks in and on what systems and with what hard drive space available and what other software running etc. before we have a chance of solving it.
Tony - Thanks for your help.
Cheers
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- KVRAF
- 1777 posts since 30 Dec, 2012
Ok, thanks for the additional info. I've tried looking at this on a number of machines and still can't replicate it.
Can you perhaps narrow down exactly when and what is getting trashed to trigger the waveforms to be re-created.
The best way to do this would be as follows:
1) Set the "Temporary Directory" ("Settings" -> "File Locations" -> "General" -> "Temporary Directory") to somewhere obvious like a folder on the Desktop (don't set it directly to the desktop!)
2) Open W9 and create a new Edit with a couple of audio files. The simpler the better
3) Check in the temp dir (now on the Desktop) and see if there is a dir that starts with something like "edit_1fa580_35469d4" and there's a "thumbnails" dir and that they have some files in there
4) Close the Edit tab (this step is important!)
5) Close W9 and see if these files from Windows explorer are still there
6) Restart the machine
7) Check if the files in the temp dir are still there or if anything has been deleted
Open W9 again
9) Check the temp dir again, is everything still there?
10) Open the Edit, are the proxies and thumbnails being regenerated? If so, keep an eye on the temp dir, did anything get deleted at any point?
Basically, keep an eye on the temp dir and try to let me know at what point the files are deleted. This will really help in finding the relevant places in the code and reasons this might be triggered.
The only other thing I can think of, you're not closing the Project from the Project page at all are? That will definitely trash all the temp files.
Hopefully this will help us get a bit further,
Dave
Can you perhaps narrow down exactly when and what is getting trashed to trigger the waveforms to be re-created.
The best way to do this would be as follows:
1) Set the "Temporary Directory" ("Settings" -> "File Locations" -> "General" -> "Temporary Directory") to somewhere obvious like a folder on the Desktop (don't set it directly to the desktop!)
2) Open W9 and create a new Edit with a couple of audio files. The simpler the better
3) Check in the temp dir (now on the Desktop) and see if there is a dir that starts with something like "edit_1fa580_35469d4" and there's a "thumbnails" dir and that they have some files in there
4) Close the Edit tab (this step is important!)
5) Close W9 and see if these files from Windows explorer are still there
6) Restart the machine
7) Check if the files in the temp dir are still there or if anything has been deleted
Open W9 again9) Check the temp dir again, is everything still there?
10) Open the Edit, are the proxies and thumbnails being regenerated? If so, keep an eye on the temp dir, did anything get deleted at any point?
Basically, keep an eye on the temp dir and try to let me know at what point the files are deleted. This will really help in finding the relevant places in the code and reasons this might be triggered.
The only other thing I can think of, you're not closing the Project from the Project page at all are? That will definitely trash all the temp files.
Hopefully this will help us get a bit further,
Dave
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- KVRist
- 48 posts since 21 Jun, 2016
I guess everyone that has this issue got used to it, i had the same issue, but opening a couple Gig of tracks will take time. The only way to make it faster is to improve the loading speed from the drives.
Since i moved to a zfs pool of 6 drives, loading 70Gig of tracks will take just a little more than a minute.
But that is with almost 4G/s read from hdd.
But since now i know that this is unusual, i will see later if i can reproduce it and include steps to trigger this. (There are a few bugs i got used to live with....)
Since i moved to a zfs pool of 6 drives, loading 70Gig of tracks will take just a little more than a minute.
But that is with almost 4G/s read from hdd.
But since now i know that this is unusual, i will see later if i can reproduce it and include steps to trigger this. (There are a few bugs i got used to live with....)
Code: Select all
madrang@ASTitan:~$ df -h
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda2 323G 223G 85G 73% /home
vol0 11T 6.6T 3.7T 65% /mnt/vol0
madrang@ASTitan:~$ free -h
total used free shared buff/cache available
Mem: 62G 38G 15G 518M 8.1G 22G
madrang@ASTitan:~$ zpool status
pool: vol0
state: ONLINE
scan: scrub in progress
1.14T scanned at 3.87G/s,
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- KVRist
- 100 posts since 23 Jan, 2014
Hi dRow !
It's been a while but I finally could follow your "step by step" method between many projects.
I answer below your steps.
I started this last Friday.
1) Set the "Temporary Directory" ("Settings" -> "File Locations" -> "General" -> "Temporary Directory") to somewhere obvious like a folder on the Desktop (don't set it directly to the desktop!)
Ok, folder named "Temp_Waveform" on the desktop.
2) Open W9 and create a new Edit with a couple of audio files. The simpler the better
18 tracks of about 1 hour long. It's the common kind of project I work on.
3) Check in the temp dir (now on the Desktop) and see if there is a dir that starts with something like "edit_1fa580_35469d4" and there's a "thumbnails" dir and that they have some files in there
Ok, I followed what happened here at every step.
4) Close the Edit tab (this step is important!)
I paid attention to this.
5) Close W9 and see if these files from Windows explorer are still there
Ok, files didn't dispappear at this step.
6) Restart the machine
OK
7) Check if the files in the temp dir are still there or if anything has been deleted
Everything was still there.
Open W9 again
OK
9) Check the temp dir again, is everything still there?
Yes
10) Open the Edit, are the proxies and thumbnails being regenerated? If so, keep an eye on the temp dir, did anything get deleted at any point?
Nothing moved.
So, at this point, It didn't look like what happens frequently to me.
So, I tried to work as usual while looking how the temp folder behaved.
First thing I noticed and I see now that I never really paid attention to that, when I copied the edit and opened the new copy, the waveforms were all recalculated ! Even though the original edit is not recalculated when I open it again.
I copied the original edit 5 times and did fast edits, clips copies... in each one.
I also copied other WAV files in one of the copies.
After that, I closed Waveform, rebooted many times, changed audio settings ans so on... and nothing happened after. So, I left the computer for the week end.
I relaunched it two hours ago.
When Waveform started, some of the folders like "edit_231a3a_......" disappeared and the waveforms of the original edit were recalculated. I waited for it to finish. I opened the other copies, one of them was recalculated too.
I restarted once again and re-tried, at least one copy is recalculated but not necessarily the same one.
In the original copy where I added some wav files last Friday, it's sometimes the first files who are recalculated and sometimes the last ones added only.
I notice that when waveforms are recalculated, nothing happens in the Temp folder until it's done. No files disappear, etc... they are just updated when job is done !
Once all my edits are opened with waveforms calculated, for the moment, I always need to restart the computer sometimes many many times for some edits to be recalculated or not.
I tried to reboot more than ten times just before and all edits were OK, Temp folder too ???
So, for now, I can't reproduce something clear and recurrent.
I shut down the computer tonight and will see tomorrow how it behaves.
Thank you.
It's been a while but I finally could follow your "step by step" method between many projects.
I answer below your steps.
I started this last Friday.
1) Set the "Temporary Directory" ("Settings" -> "File Locations" -> "General" -> "Temporary Directory") to somewhere obvious like a folder on the Desktop (don't set it directly to the desktop!)
Ok, folder named "Temp_Waveform" on the desktop.
2) Open W9 and create a new Edit with a couple of audio files. The simpler the better
18 tracks of about 1 hour long. It's the common kind of project I work on.
3) Check in the temp dir (now on the Desktop) and see if there is a dir that starts with something like "edit_1fa580_35469d4" and there's a "thumbnails" dir and that they have some files in there
Ok, I followed what happened here at every step.
4) Close the Edit tab (this step is important!)
I paid attention to this.
5) Close W9 and see if these files from Windows explorer are still there
Ok, files didn't dispappear at this step.
6) Restart the machine
OK
7) Check if the files in the temp dir are still there or if anything has been deleted
Everything was still there.
Open W9 againOK
9) Check the temp dir again, is everything still there?
Yes
10) Open the Edit, are the proxies and thumbnails being regenerated? If so, keep an eye on the temp dir, did anything get deleted at any point?
Nothing moved.
So, at this point, It didn't look like what happens frequently to me.
So, I tried to work as usual while looking how the temp folder behaved.
First thing I noticed and I see now that I never really paid attention to that, when I copied the edit and opened the new copy, the waveforms were all recalculated ! Even though the original edit is not recalculated when I open it again.
I copied the original edit 5 times and did fast edits, clips copies... in each one.
I also copied other WAV files in one of the copies.
After that, I closed Waveform, rebooted many times, changed audio settings ans so on... and nothing happened after. So, I left the computer for the week end.
I relaunched it two hours ago.
When Waveform started, some of the folders like "edit_231a3a_......" disappeared and the waveforms of the original edit were recalculated. I waited for it to finish. I opened the other copies, one of them was recalculated too.
I restarted once again and re-tried, at least one copy is recalculated but not necessarily the same one.
In the original copy where I added some wav files last Friday, it's sometimes the first files who are recalculated and sometimes the last ones added only.
I notice that when waveforms are recalculated, nothing happens in the Temp folder until it's done. No files disappear, etc... they are just updated when job is done !
Once all my edits are opened with waveforms calculated, for the moment, I always need to restart the computer sometimes many many times for some edits to be recalculated or not.
I tried to reboot more than ten times just before and all edits were OK, Temp folder too ???
So, for now, I can't reproduce something clear and recurrent.
I shut down the computer tonight and will see tomorrow how it behaves.
Thank you.
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- KVRist
- 100 posts since 23 Jan, 2014
Hello to everyone.
Post to notice that this problem concerning waveforms ever redrawing still happens in Waveform 10 !
Someone experiences that too ? Thanks for your feedback.
Until here, what I wrote before is still happening. Hard to reproduce clearly the problem.
But I noticed something else. If Waveform is redrawing and I launch an app or just open a window in the explorer (and so, lose the focus on the Waveform app), waveforms disappear immediately and are recalculated !? Exactly like the first post of this discussion.
Can I post a video on this forum maybe ?
Post to notice that this problem concerning waveforms ever redrawing still happens in Waveform 10 !
Someone experiences that too ? Thanks for your feedback.
Until here, what I wrote before is still happening. Hard to reproduce clearly the problem.
But I noticed something else. If Waveform is redrawing and I launch an app or just open a window in the explorer (and so, lose the focus on the Waveform app), waveforms disappear immediately and are recalculated !? Exactly like the first post of this discussion.
Can I post a video on this forum maybe ?
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- KVRAF
- 1777 posts since 30 Dec, 2012
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- KVRist
- 100 posts since 23 Jan, 2014
OK, I try.
A quick video to show the waveforms redrawing after I open an explorer window, two times.
I can reproduce it on my new MacBook Pro with the latest version of Waveform too.
Sorry for the link, I don't know how to do differently here :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5sc7exwkhqlj7 ... s.mov?dl=0
Hope it works.
A quick video to show the waveforms redrawing after I open an explorer window, two times.
I can reproduce it on my new MacBook Pro with the latest version of Waveform too.
Sorry for the link, I don't know how to do differently here :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5sc7exwkhqlj7 ... s.mov?dl=0
Hope it works.
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- KVRAF
- 1777 posts since 30 Dec, 2012
Ok, I think I see what the problem is now.
All files are released when the app loses focus to allow other apps and the Finder/Windows Explorer to access the files.
It seems that this is also stopping the thumbnail generation.
I'll see if there's a way around this if the thumbnails are still being generated.
All files are released when the app loses focus to allow other apps and the Finder/Windows Explorer to access the files.
It seems that this is also stopping the thumbnail generation.
I'll see if there's a way around this if the thumbnails are still being generated.
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- KVRAF
- 1777 posts since 30 Dec, 2012
Sorry, this is in the backlog but I'm not sure if it's possible to do without breaking the possibility to use external editors.
It might have to get added as a setting but it's pretty low priority I'm afraid as it's not an issue for a large proportion of people.
It might have to get added as a setting but it's pretty low priority I'm afraid as it's not an issue for a large proportion of people.
