The Grid vs ...

[Taika-Kim]

If you don't feel like you are missing on anything, you probably don't need a modular system.

But when you just need to have resonant filtered envelopes, melodies syncing the oscillators of another melody line, build logic structures, basically think up effects that might not exist yet, a modular system will allow you to do all that.

[pekbro]

Lol, of course its modular. Anytime you can swap different components to use, I'm afraid that means modular. Being able to wire stuff together has nothing to do with it being modular or not. As for the layers thing, thats just nomenclature, the 3D concept of layers has no real meaning in the 2d world of digital audio. It's simply mixing, no matter how you look at it.

*I suppose if you isolated audio by frequency, you could interpret that as being layered.
You couldn't have any overlap though, as that would be mixing.

[pdxindy]

Because it isn’t true. Falcon is not equally modular like the grid. Falcon is unlimited in terms of the modules you can stack up. But it’s layers, much like you could do with instrument layers in bitwig. Except of course there is a per voice layer allowing modules like filters or distortion to be added per voice (which is more like the grid than instruments racks/layers). But there is no interconnectivity of audio signals. You can’t run an oscillator to another osc or fm a filter or have all the logical structures and stuff you can do in a modular system. Like whywhy said, no audio rate between signals, but the modulation system is very different as well.

Okay... that makes more sense in relation to the various things people have said about it.

As for the definition of modular, it is flexible these days, but I consider modular to be most effectively defined as all signals are interchangeable. So no separation of modulation and audio signals.

[pdxindy]

Lol, of course its modular. Anytime you can swap different components to use, I'm afraid that means modular.

What you are calling modular, I'd call semi-modular. To me modular means no differentiation between modulation and audio signals and any output can be routed freely to any input without limitation.

[Taika-Kim]

Yess, let's argue about semantics a bit more.

I'd say, people will know when they hit the limits of their current needs and need to go full-on modular.

[pdxindy]

Yess, let's argue about semantics a bit more.

It's a discussion... and a generally useful one as plenty of people don't know the differences so such questions are common.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Lol, of course its modular. Anytime you can swap different components to use, I'm afraid that means modular. Being able to wire stuff together has nothing to do with it being modular or not.

Personally I’m fine with using the term modular as you are using, in saying that you have the choice of modules to instantiate, much like zebra and many other freely configurable synths. The problem is that in the synth world most people recognize modular as meaning audio signals or control signals can freely be sent anywhere. What I meant to point out as being untrue (and what I quoted) was the statement that falcon and the grid are equally modular. While it may be an issue of semantics whether or not falcon is modular (and I think it’s fine to loosely call it that), you can’t really say it’s equally modular to the grid as it is missing that very significant element that people understand modular to mean in the synth world.

[pekbro]

While personally, I don't see a tremendous amount of difference in the modularity of the two systems.
Certainly, Falcon is a much more rigid and fixed system and definitely lacking some key elements of the
typical modular synth experience. So, I can definitely understand how many might view it as being less
modular than the grid. Particularly as much is only accessible via programming interface.

[SpaceCadetOnLeave]

basically think up effects that might not exist yet, a modular system will allow you to do all that.

dude, semantic wise, that's bold, now all that not exists yet will come from modular.
I think you need to put your calculator down and make some heartfelt music.
a sequence of sound is not the same as music.

I'd say, people will know when they hit the limits of their current needs and need to go full-on modular.

I'd say, modular is too fragmented in so many ways (e.g. to the needs of consumers) to totally grasp what is possible.
Leave sound, synth and fx engines to the pro's. Look at the grid, you will never be able to do what a group of specialist developers can do.

[x.iso]

dude, semantic wise, that's bold, now all that not exists yet will come from modular.
I think you need to put your calculator down and make some heartfelt music.
a sequence of sound is not the same as music.

this kind of modular music can be heartfelt too, you know
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHphCqmiri8

[antic604]

basically think up effects that might not exist yet, a modular system will allow you to do all that.

dude, semantic wise, that's bold, now all that not exists yet will come from modular.
I think you need to put your calculator down and make some heartfelt music.
a sequence of sound is not the same as music.

I'd say, people will know when they hit the limits of their current needs and need to go full-on modular.

I'd say, modular is too fragmented in so many ways (e.g. to the needs of consumers) to totally grasp what is possible. Leave sound, synth and fx engines to the pro's. Look at the grid, you will never be able to do what a group of specialist developers can do.

Why you're so aggressive?! He ain't wrong in what he's saying, but you seem bent out of shape to twist the words and interpret them as if he was attacking you or something...

[SpaceCadetOnLeave]

basically think up effects that might not exist yet, a modular system will allow you to do all that.

dude, semantic wise, that's bold, now all that not exists yet will come from modular.
I think you need to put your calculator down and make some heartfelt music.
a sequence of sound is not the same as music.

I'd say, people will know when they hit the limits of their current needs and need to go full-on modular.

I'd say, modular is too fragmented in so many ways (e.g. to the needs of consumers) to totally grasp what is possible. Leave sound, synth and fx engines to the pro's. Look at the grid, you will never be able to do what a group of specialist developers can do.

Why you're so aggressive?! He ain't wrong in what he's saying, but you seem bent out of shape to twist the words and interpret them as if he was attacking you or something...

LOL aggressive?! Who? I was mimicking his one liner mode.
He is stating something weird and wrong and I just try to pull it back in some sort of context trying to get across that he is badly misinformed, making not verifiable, weird and bold statements. All with an attitude as if ...

BTW How do you see yourself in this? You need to regulate something inhere? Why do you feel the need to protect him? Can't he speak for himself.
Come to think of it, this is exactly what is wrong in these Fora.
This weird professional-forum-poster-attitude with false accusations making people agitated, so they will respond in a defensive matter, resulting in these infamous KVR bitwig forum bitching dumbness.
Please stay OT, stop rabble-rousing and don't insinuate.
Try to keep the peace.

[antic604]

LOL aggressive?! Who? I was mimicking his one liner mode.
He is stating something weird and wrong and I just try to pull it back in some sort of context trying to get across that he is badly misinformed, making not verifiable, weird and bold statements. All with an attitude as if ...

BTW How do you see yourself in this? You need to regulate something inhere? Why do you feel the need to protect him? Can't he speak for himself.
Come to think of it, this is exactly what is wrong in these Fora.
This weird professional-forum-poster-attitude with false accusations making people agitated, so they will respond in a defensive matter, resulting in these infamous KVR bitwig forum bitching dumbness.
Please stay OT, stop rabble-rousing and don't insinuate.
Try to keep the peace.

Where was he wrong, though? All he said was that modular systems give you the most flexibility in creating whatever you imagine. Guess what - every synth or FX that innovated was a the start a bunch of modules, that someone figured out to piece in an innovative way.

2nd, Taika-Kim is an established forum member here, proving his "worth" with a string of creative Bitwig presets / devices not to mention a wealthy musical catalogue, so your attack and insinuations were really unfounded. And knowing him over the years I suspect he won't react, because I myself was kinda speechless at your uncalled post...

And 3rd, who made YOU liable to "pull it back in some sort of context trying to get across that he is badly misinformed, making not verifiable, weird and bold statements"??? Can't you see how misguided you are?

[JHernandez]

"But when you just need to have resonant filtered envelopes, melodies syncing the oscillators of another melody line, build logic structures, basically think up effects that might not exist yet, a modular system will allow you to do all that."

What's bold about this statement?

" . . . now all that not exists yet will come from modular." What does this even mean? Are you saying or implying that he said everything that doesn't exist yet (synths FX,ect) will necessarily come from modular? If so, how did you come to this conclusion?

Side note: "heartfelt music." is entirely subjective and music is literally a sequence of sound.

[Taika-Kim]

Ok, since you decided to attack my comment in a pretty acrid way...

I have already created several unique effects in V2. It's something I enjoy, and I like how it gives my music a bit of personal flair. I'm not saying that the concepts are new in any way, experimenting with the cutting edge things would need a way to insert code in the presets, but with a modular system I can set the things up exactly as I want.

It's a lot of fun, I keep thinking of new ways to build things when walking around, driving the car, etc, and then sit down and hear how it sounds. I have been writing music for 20 years, now I'm finishing an album and two EPs, and I'm really not a tech fetist even though I enjoy experimenting. Having skills in sound design, DSP and music are not exclusive, which you seem to imply.

So this. This is possible with the grid compared to less flexible systems.

And funny that you mention it, "heartfelt" is exactly the single most common adjective used to describe my music.