SOLVED (at least for my purposes): Omnisphere Multi Out Routing Question - is there no other way?

[Caine123]

EDIT
for people finding this topic later, so i was using Omnisphere always with multi out to save performance i thought, it must be 10 years or so that i learned this method and seems this might be overhauled with nowadays gear, DAWs etc. new findings are that multi out saves RAM but the performance is worse than having single instances in both DAWs FL Studio and Bitwig tested.

Conclusion:
still, multi out is heavily cumbersome in Bitwig sadly, luckily it seems i dont need it though .

---------------------------------
hi everyone,
it seems I got it working out in Bitwig how to route multi out channels, I use this a lot in FL Studio and want to use it in Bitwig as well to save RAM (afaik). so it looks like this now:

bitwig omnis.jpg

what really bothers me is that I have the 8-9 Omnisphere Out Busses + my 8 Instrument channels.
in FL Studio I can route it simply like this
1x Omnisphere + 8x Midi Outs (which are each to a Mixer channel) = 8 Mixer channels

here in Bitwig I got
1x Omnisphere (with 9 Busses Out - I guess I can remove one Bus out) + 8x Instruments (aka Midi Outs I guess you could call?) = 17 Mixer Channels, this is insane :/

is there no way to have this as short as in FL Studio? or maybe a way to hide the Instrument Channels in the mixer so I would rename them to the Omnisphere Bus Out?

thx

[stamp]

Put the instruments channels in a group...

[Trancit]

Yes, such types of DAWs are not very well equipped to work with multitimbral instruments...

That´s more a domain of stuff like Cubase, S1, Reaper... etc... which have the ability to either insert pure Midi tracks (like FLS Midi Out) without any Mixer channels bound to them and/or the ability to hide away mixer tracks only without hiding the actual arranger tracks...

In Bitwig or Ableton you have to live with this kind of "clutter"... there is no other way... at least none I would be aware of...

if you need to send Midi from a different track to something, you´d have to use an instrument track and have automatically a Mixer track which cannot be hidden individually...
As suggested you can just put the "Midi" tracks into a group and after editing collapse it that the visible track count gets less... but that´s all...

But if you work in FLS this way, you´d have to use different Midi colors (as seperate Midi channels) for the individual Midi Outs, wouldn´t you??
Not a very user friendly way to work either, isn´t it?

Either way and as said... such DAWs aren´t made for this kind of work and I personally stay away from using instruments in a multitimbral way... too cumbersome...no matter of the RAM usage...
Multi-Out ...yes... but not multitimbral...
Actually, I don´t even have any multitimbral instruments anymore...

[Caine123]

Put the instruments channels in a group...

thx i will list the problem with this down below.

Yes, such types of DAWs are not very well equipped to work with multitimbral instruments...

That´s more a domain of stuff like Cubase, S1, Reaper... etc... which have the ability to either insert pure Midi tracks (like FLS Midi Out) without any Mixer channels bound to them and/or the ability to hide away mixer tracks only without hiding the actual arranger tracks...

In Bitwig or Ableton you have to live with this kind of "clutter"... there is no other way... at least none I would be aware of...

if you need to send Midi from a different track to something, you´d have to use an instrument track and have automatically a Mixer track which cannot be hidden individually...
As suggested you can just put the "Midi" tracks into a group and after editing collapse it that the visible track count gets less... but that´s all...

But if you work in FLS this way, you´d have to use different Midi colors (as seperate Midi channels) for the individual Midi Outs, wouldn´t you??
Not a very user friendly way to work either, isn´t it?

Either way and as said... such DAWs aren´t made for this kind of work and I personally stay away from using instruments in a multitimbral way... too cumbersome...no matter of the RAM usage...
Multi-Out ...yes... but not multitimbral...
Actually, I don´t even have any multitimbral instruments anymore...

i never knew that the DAWs are so different from each other..... thought this is what they share each other and FL Studio the most cumbersome with routing, guess not :/

so yeah the Multi Out is indeed really more cumbersome in Bitwig than FL Studio, wow! the setup is maybe faster but the handling afterwards is just awkward!

first the great thing is if you save it as a template you can drag and drop this instantly in a project, just awesome, look at this! not so cumbersome like int FL Studio.

Bitwig Using Templates.gif

Duplicating is also easy and fast but yeah in FL Studio also not that bad.

but here it comes, so first thanks to both of you, I thought yeah grouping is a great idea but check this, this just sucks!

Bitwig Omnisphere grouping.gif

so here first ok if i group it then I cannot choose single instruments in the arranger, so i have to anyway extend the list to play with all 8 instruments/channels. but what SUCKS MORE is if you add effects you have to always switch back and forth as you cannot add to the instruments the effects but you need to add them to the Omnisphere Out Busses and then when you wanna play the channel you have to click back to the instument channel....... and so on....

so maybe i do something wrong or it is so tedious, i will write support as this is really something which bugs me, i cannot work like this with Omnisphere and this will suck more RAM have 8 instances vs 8 Instruments + 1 Instance.

[Trancit]

nevermind... causes feedback loop and Bitwig complaints...

[pdxindy]

but here it comes, so first thanks to both of you, I thought yeah grouping is a great idea but check this, this just sucks!

What is the purpose of the 8 Instrument Channels?

I don't have a multi-timbral instrument installed and am trying to understand your setup. (I do understand multi-timbral instruments)

[Trancit]

but here it comes, so first thanks to both of you, I thought yeah grouping is a great idea but check this, this just sucks!

What is the purpose of the 8 Instrument Channels?

I don't have a multi-timbral instrument installed and am trying to understand your setup. (I do understand multi-timbral instruments)

The 8 Instrument tracks (while actually just 7 would be needed) are used to trigger with different Midi channels the 8 seperate Layers in Omnisphere
You could do it in one track but then it would be a quite wild clip with notes for 8 different Midi channels...

And Caine hasn´t even found the final issue with the Multi-out setup...
What happens if you want to record the individual outputs out of Omnisphere??

Then you have to setup 8 additional Audio tracks with Audio receivers on them to grab the individual outputs...

To really do in Bitwig with Omnisphere what he does in FLS, he would need to setup
- Omnisphere with it´s 7 outputs
- at least 7 (or if you like 8 ) Instrument tracks to trigger the different "Instruments" in a multi timbral way
- at least 7 (or if you like 8 ) audio tracks to record the individual outputs from...
... that would make at least 15 tracks in the Mixer to deal with if Omnisphere is collapsed and a lot of setup ... at least for the first time...

And everything just because Bitwig doesn´t differentiate between Midi and Audio when detecting and complaining about feedback loops...
It´s actually nonsense if Midi is send and audio received to talk about a feedback loop...
If this wouldn´t happen you could collapse Omnisphere and work with just the 8 Instrument tracks for everything...

No expert here though... it´s just what I tried and failed... so please correct me, if I tell nonsense...

[pdxindy]

but here it comes, so first thanks to both of you, I thought yeah grouping is a great idea but check this, this just sucks!

What is the purpose of the 8 Instrument Channels?

I don't have a multi-timbral instrument installed and am trying to understand your setup. (I do understand multi-timbral instruments)

The 8 Instrument tracks (while actually just 7 would be needed) are used to trigger with different Midi channels the 8 seperate Layers in Omnisphere
You could do it in one track but then it would be a quite wild clip with notes for 8 different Midi channels...

That was my assumption, but I couldn't see the routing in his video and then he added an FX device on one of the instrument tracks and if that track is only sending midi to Omnisphere, it would be meaningless to add an FX device, so I thought maybe he was doing something else.

[pdxindy]

Then you have to setup 8 additional Audio tracks with Audio receivers on them to grab the individual outputs...

To really do in Bitwig with Omnisphere what he does in FLS, he would need to setup
- Omnisphere with it´s 7 outputs
- at least 7 (or if you like 8 ) Instrument tracks to trigger the different "Instruments" in a multi timbral way
- at least 7 (or if you like 8 ) audio tracks to record the individual outputs from...
... that would make at least 15 tracks in the Mixer to deal with if Omnisphere is collapsed and a lot of setup ... at least for the first time...

If you want to send out to 8 audio tracks, those tracks don't need Audio Receivers. Just set the track input of each track to receive one of the outputs.

What do you see as the problem with having 8 midi input tracks and 8 audio tracks? Seems easy enough and only needs to be setup once. Then just use the individual output tracks and ignore the Mixer outputs for the multi-timbral instrument.

[pdxindy]

And everything just because Bitwig doesn´t differentiate between Midi and Audio when detecting and complaining about feedback loops...
It´s actually nonsense if Midi is send and audio received to talk about a feedback loop...
If this wouldn´t happen you could collapse Omnisphere and work with just the 8 Instrument tracks for everything...

No expert here though... it´s just what I tried and failed... so please correct me, if I tell nonsense...

So you were trying to put Audio Receivers on the 8 midi tracks to have midi and audio on the same track?

[Trancit]

And everything just because Bitwig doesn´t differentiate between Midi and Audio when detecting and complaining about feedback loops...
It´s actually nonsense if Midi is send and audio received to talk about a feedback loop...
If this wouldn´t happen you could collapse Omnisphere and work with just the 8 Instrument tracks for everything...

No expert here though... it´s just what I tried and failed... so please correct me, if I tell nonsense...

So you were trying to put Audio Receivers on the 8 midi tracks to have midi and audio on the same track?

Yup... and it works flawlessly... just Bitwig does some kind of crash report but without crashing

I routed via the tracks outputs the Midi to the Multi Instrument (with channel 1, 2, etc...), send the individual outputs to FX channels (disabled the main output) and grabbed the audio from the FX channels back to the instrument tracks i use for Midi...

Works with some trickery and as said Bitwig is complaining but it works...
And actually there wouldn´t be the need to complain for Bitwig... how shall I do a feedback loop if I send Midi but receive Audio...

[Trancit]

If you want to send out to 8 audio tracks, those tracks don't need Audio Receivers. Just set the track input of each track to receive one of the outputs.

I know, works of course too...

What do you see as the problem with having 8 midi input tracks and 8 audio tracks? Seems easy enough and only needs to be setup once. Then just use the individual output tracks and ignore the Mixer outputs for the multi-timbral instrument.

Not me, but the OP has complaint that he doesn´t like to see the individual instrument tracks in the Mixer he just uses as Midi tracks...
So even if in the Mixer for actual processing just the Omnisphere channels are necessary he has now 8 additional Instrument tracks cluttering the view...

In Daws like Cubase, S1 etc... you can hide tracks individually (in the Mixer but not the Arranger) or
have even better systems to deal with Multi-timbral - Multi-out plugins... especially Studio One has imho the best... automatic connecting with one track (per channel) for Midi and Audio for every Multi-timbral-Multi-Out plugins...
That´s of course a godsend if you work a lot with such plugins...
I don´t use such kind of plugins anymore though... so no problem for me...

[pdxindy]

I routed via the tracks outputs the Midi to the Multi Instrument (with channel 1, 2, etc...), send the individual outputs to FX channels (disabled the main output) and grabbed the audio from the FX channels back to the instrument tracks i use for Midi...

Works with some trickery and as said Bitwig is complaining but it works...
And actually there wouldn´t be the need to complain for Bitwig... how shall I do a feedback loop if I send Midi but receive Audio...

Ahh... yes, using FX tracks. I forgot about that 'trick'.

I wonder if that might cause PDC issues?

[stamp]

Put the instruments channels in a group...

thx i will list the problem with this down below.

Yes, such types of DAWs are not very well equipped to work with multitimbral instruments...

That´s more a domain of stuff like Cubase, S1, Reaper... etc... which have the ability to either insert pure Midi tracks (like FLS Midi Out) without any Mixer channels bound to them and/or the ability to hide away mixer tracks only without hiding the actual arranger tracks...

In Bitwig or Ableton you have to live with this kind of "clutter"... there is no other way... at least none I would be aware of...

if you need to send Midi from a different track to something, you´d have to use an instrument track and have automatically a Mixer track which cannot be hidden individually...
As suggested you can just put the "Midi" tracks into a group and after editing collapse it that the visible track count gets less... but that´s all...

But if you work in FLS this way, you´d have to use different Midi colors (as seperate Midi channels) for the individual Midi Outs, wouldn´t you??
Not a very user friendly way to work either, isn´t it?

Either way and as said... such DAWs aren´t made for this kind of work and I personally stay away from using instruments in a multitimbral way... too cumbersome...no matter of the RAM usage...
Multi-Out ...yes... but not multitimbral...
Actually, I don´t even have any multitimbral instruments anymore...

i never knew that the DAWs are so different from each other..... thought this is what they share each other and FL Studio the most cumbersome with routing, guess not :/

so yeah the Multi Out is indeed really more cumbersome in Bitwig than FL Studio, wow! the setup is maybe faster but the handling afterwards is just awkward!

first the great thing is if you save it as a template you can drag and drop this instantly in a project, just awesome, look at this! not so cumbersome like int FL Studio.

Bitwig Using Templates.gif

Duplicating is also easy and fast but yeah in FL Studio also not that bad.

but here it comes, so first thanks to both of you, I thought yeah grouping is a great idea but check this, this just sucks!

Bitwig Omnisphere grouping.gif

so here first ok if i group it then I cannot choose single instruments in the arranger, so i have to anyway extend the list to play with all 8 instruments/channels. but what SUCKS MORE is if you add effects you have to always switch back and forth as you cannot add to the instruments the effects but you need to add them to the Omnisphere Out Busses and then when you wanna play the channel you have to click back to the instument channel....... and so on....

so maybe i do something wrong or it is so tedious, i will write support as this is really something which bugs me, i cannot work like this with Omnisphere and this will suck more RAM have 8 instances vs 8 Instruments + 1 Instance.

You have to click on the blue + sign to add an effect on a bus on the omnisphere plugin not the white + sign (that will add the effect on the whole ominsphere not on the bus).

[Trancit]

I routed via the tracks outputs the Midi to the Multi Instrument (with channel 1, 2, etc...), send the individual outputs to FX channels (disabled the main output) and grabbed the audio from the FX channels back to the instrument tracks i use for Midi...

Works with some trickery and as said Bitwig is complaining but it works...
And actually there wouldn´t be the need to complain for Bitwig... how shall I do a feedback loop if I send Midi but receive Audio...

Ahh... yes, using FX tracks. I forgot about that 'trick'.

I wonder if that might cause PDC issues?

Haven´t checked this and actually for me it´s not necessary anyway...
I wouldn´t use this trick as I couldn´t be sure if the kind of "crash" Bitwig reports with the feedback loop not having far more consequences in a project...

Nonetheless working with these kind of plugins is for sure very cumbersome in Bitwig as well as in Ableton compared to the rest of the products...
But I doubt they will touch it in a deeper way as I think most it won´t affect...