Why even modern VST Synths can't sound like 20 year-old Hardware VA Synths?

[Vertion]

I believe the answer is feedback and equilibrium. I notice most VAs use noise to simulate the analog aspect, but the proper way is understanding how real analog is self-reacting, on a larger scale it seems to be moving through different states, and the circuits "reverberate" in different ways, inductance, etc. The analog system is reacting to itself in a way I can abstractly describe as somewhere between cymatics and a "state machine". This is what I hear in the analog sound, responsive timbral changes to my style of input, some kind of internal change via internal rules based on how I play (timing, velocity, pitches, speed, knob settings,acceleration, etc), the sound seems to react to me and some internal rule set that dynamically changes its state based on the musician's play style and it's own state. This is the 'soul' of the synth, it's personality, how it reacts to your own style of playing in a unique way based on how it internally reacts to you via it's internal rules and cascades. The emotional state of the developers are paramount in creating this personality, as it is through their own ears and their own heart that they make the synth sing the way they feel is ideal. They subjectively define the sound using their own emotional response to it. The more dynamic and 'breathing' the VA is, the better. The better state of mind the developers are in while creating the VA, the better.

In summary, this is the missing dimension that developers seem to overlook, personality and dynamic responsiveness via feedback and equilibrium.

[recursive one]

What I really don’t get is the OP’s premise that the Virus is some paramount of quality.

The OP didn't even mention it, it think it was me who brought it up in the thread, as usual, because

If all your favorite music was made with a Virus, then I get it. You sort of imprint on things

indeed a large fraction of my favourite music was made with use of Virus or at least was influenced by the Virus in terms of synth programming and processing. It's by no means a paramount of sound quality but somehow they managed to embed all the imperfections of the old digital tech into a very strong and characterful sound.

I know you often compare Virus to Dune2/3 with a strong preference to the latter, for me it's the other way round, I have and often use Dune3 but I prefer Virus sonically, I guess essentially because of the same qualities due to which you dislike it.

[Shiek927]

Wanna chime in to this thread again because I have similar tastes to OP and I recently got my hands again on a new set of 90's virtual analog synths for a 90's style project -- a V-Synth, Waldorf Q and Novation Nova. Of course, I was also using softsynths that I had like Avenger, DUNE 3 and u-he Diva. Long story short, when it was all said and done, the hardware ended up actually playing a very minimal role in the track itself. Even though it was 1990's-style music, sonically the best results came from Roland JD990 samples mixed in with the plugins. When you have the hardware actually in your possession and hear them side-by-side with modern-day plugins, even if you're an aficionado for the era, you no longer have the rose-colored glasses. To be honest, I found them to be underwhelming. Even though they all have distinct features and characters, I was actually getting pretty same-ish sounding results from each synth and, when it came to the more analog-sounding patches, nothing of course came close to u-he Diva.

In the end, I came to the conclusion that you really only need so much if you really want to capture that 1990's era sound and, in my opinion, it would be a Roland JD800/JD990 because I found it to be sonically the best -- it's very warm, flexible, and was up there with the best in how analog it sounded. The other synths, including a Nord Lead 2 I previously had, no longer had that halo-effect once I actually had them in my possession and was using them in context of a mix. Even in the context of a 1990's style track. It was a fun experience and it definitely gave me perspective -- which is why once the music was done, I decided to re-list them online and send them on their way.

At this point, if you're a 90's buff, I'd buy or either wait for an eventual Roland Cloud JD990 plugin. That encapsulates the era of that sound better than anything in existence (both in terms of tone and fidelity) and, with the help of contemporary plugins (Korg Legacy Collection included of course, which always sounds good), would help make for some banging tracks. There's other hardware out there that I've never tried before like most of the Yamaha's (AN1x, CS-series, S90, etc), the Quasimidi stuff or the Korg MS2000, but I have a suspicion that the results would feel just as underwhelming if I were to spring for them. Like most people here have been saying, companies have moved on from 'that' sound' for some time and the afterglow doesn't hold up when you actually have them versus just listening to them on Youtube. If you're like me, you aim for what sonically sounds the best even if you're trying to emulate the specific sound of an era. My discovery is that you really only need so much to capture this old-school sound and most of can be accomplished just the same, if not better, with modern-day plugins. How about that! (not to drag on, but having played around with Adam Szabo's Viper and finally having the vaunted Virus sound, I found DUNE3 to deliver better results. It seems modern day instruments are better at the 1990's sound than 1990's synths!)

Of course, you're more than welcome to spring for the hardware if you can't wait and discover how you personally feel .

[Guacamoleisred]

confirmation bias