KVR Audio

PlusFOUR · Post by **PlusFOUR** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:41 pm

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Hey Guys, just joined up specifically to share this with you. I read through this whole thread but was still unclear of acceptable usage of these vengeance sample packs. I emailed support and thought you may like some further clarification. Below is the response from support:

"Hi (so and so),

As stated in the licensing agreement (http://refx.com/products/vengeance/specs/ (http://refx.com/products/vengeance/specs/)):

"All melodies, melodic loops and compositions are licenced for non-commercial use only."

This means that you cannot use the melodies / melodic loops commercially. These cannot simply be used 'as-in' in your commercial productions.

You may use the drum loops and one-shot sounds provided in the samplepacks in your commercial productions. Additionally, you may break apart / rearrange / heavily modify the melodic loops, and then use these in your commercial productions. Once again, though, you may not use the melodic loops 'as-is' in your commercial productions.

Regards,
(leaving employees name blank)"

Now, I guess you just have to use discretion and hope they interpret "heavily modified" the same way that you would. Hope this helps!!

PlusFOUR · Post by **PlusFOUR** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:02 pm

And I received even more clarification you may be interested in:

Hi (so and so),

If you're using the same chord progression, then you're using the same melody. This is not permitted.

Basically, what we are trying to do is to avoid any copyright conflicts arising. We want to avoid a situation where two different artists use the same melodic loop in their commercial productions; this could lead to all sorts of trouble (ie. who is copying who? who has the right to use this melody?).

If you are interested in breaking apart and rearranging the melodic loop (ie. essentially creating your own melody from the sample), then you may do so. However, you absolutely may not use the melodies in your commercial productions as they are.

Regards,
(employee)

penguinfromdeep · Post by **penguinfromdeep** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:17 pm

As per the law you can use the same chord progressions as in other songs! Chord progressions can never be copyrighted! That's the law, melodies can be subject to copyright but not chord progressions. Melodies are not the same as chord progressions! What he says is totally wrong! I mean how many different chord progressions can you have there's no doubt gonna be overlap. In fact most hits use the same progressions!

V0RT3X · Post by **V0RT3X** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:32 pm

PlusFOUR wrote:And I received even more clarification you may be interested in:

Hi (so and so),

If you're using the same chord progression, then you're using the same melody. This is not permitted.

Basically, what we are trying to do is to avoid any copyright conflicts arising. We want to avoid a situation where two different artists use the same melodic loop in their commercial productions; this could lead to all sorts of trouble (ie. who is copying who? who has the right to use this melody?).

If you are interested in breaking apart and rearranging the melodic loop (ie. essentially creating your own melody from the sample), then you may do so. However, you absolutely may not use the melodies in your commercial productions as they are.

Regards,
(employee)

Strange

peejunk · Post by **peejunk** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:47 pm

Yes this is quite uncommon in sample CD world but I suppose Vengeance consider themselves to be in a position where they can ask for royalties for derivatives that use vocal tracks or tiny compositional bits (ie loops). I'm quite sure that Steve Angelo situation had something to do with it, but also because their samples really are out of the box, connect the dots material for Beatport top 100 house.

From a consumer perspective, they should have all royalty information available on their site and quote percentages on request rather than giving ambiguous information, and giving it only when requested.

sorohanro · Post by **sorohanro** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:17 pm

And this concludes why you should use a synth, record an instrument and try to sing or get a good singer and never ever put up with this kind of troubles.

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:52 pm

I'm glad that I haven't sample packs from Vengeance. Because if I buy a sample pack, I always look at the license, and if I can't use it commercially, I pass.

I can never know in advance if some song gets commercially or not. It can be free for some times, and then if I would get a record contract, it would get commercial. Or someone could remix it and it would get commercial, too.

I don't like all these attribution stuff, either. I'm a musician, not an accountant. I don't want to make for every song a big list of which samples I've used...

Regarding the REAPER license, you can make commercial music even with the discounted license if:

"you are an individual or business, using REAPER for commercial use, and the yearly gross revenue does not exceed USD $20,000."

The $20,000 are related solely to the use of REAPER, not to your daily job (assumed that you don't use REAPER in your daily job). So even if you would work as a manager, and you earn more than $20,000, you could use the discounted license.

The REAPER discounted license is one of the fairest licenses I've ever seen...

shadoe42 · Post by **shadoe42** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:12 pm

Chord progression same as melody? wow... as has been said talk about wrong. You cannot copywrite a progression. can't be done. yeesh. mental note not to buy from these folks.

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:25 pm

What does this mean?? Do I have to buy all Vengeance sample packs and carefully write down all chord progressions just in order to see which chord progressions I'm not allowed to use??:nutter:

That's simply impossible. Nobody can know all chord progressions of all non-commercial sample packs.

bluedad · Post by **bluedad** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:34 pm

sorohanro wrote:And this concludes why you should use a synth, record an instrument and try to sing or get a good singer and never ever put up with this kind of troubles.

really, I've never understood the use of bass/keyboards/sax etc in sample paks. i delete them because they're useless to me.

starsweeper · Post by **starsweeper** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:37 pm

Just don't use the exact melody and loop that they created, and try to sue someone else because they also used it in their song as well. It's open source. have fun! But don't be mad when someone else uses the same hook you did

gamecat666 · Post by **gamecat666** » Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:14 pm

I dont get it.. complaining about not being able to use chord progressions+melodies?

would you seriously just drop a melody off a sample cd into a track, unmodified? considering how many other people will have the same cd?

Giggity · Post by **Giggity** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:54 am

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check out this link guys. https://refx.com/eula/ (https://refx.com/eula/)

Let me know of your thoughts.

Vengeance Samplepacks not for commercial use?