I am tempted to buy a decent basic set of orchestral instruments to experiment with. I already have Komplete 12. Right now, with the sale, I can upgrade to Komplete Ultimate for $300 or Komplete Ultimate Collector's Edition for $500. Those have the Symphony Essentials stuff or the Symphony Series stuff, respectively. I have no idea how good those are.
Would I be better off getting one of those upgrades, or would something else be better, such as Audio Imperia Nucleus or something else?
I'd like to have some decent ensembles and also some solo instruments.
orchestral libraries advice
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- KVRAF
- 1530 posts since 17 Sep, 2002
Symphony Series is not well regarded in some circles. Don't be deceived by the unified UI; the libraries are recorded and produced by different companies in completely different acoustic spaces, and aren't as consistent or as cohesive as the UI might suggest. But I don't have first hand experience here, so don't take my word for it.
Berlin Inspire is cool, if you like that tone. You can't deviate much from it; you just get that one mic mix, so you're kind of tied into that reverb. Additionally, it's kind of barebones as far as articulations go, mostly just bread and butter stuff like one long, one short, and legato, with a few exceptions like the occasional trill, marcato, pizz for strings). And you don't really get individual sections; it's pre-orchestrated, so you only get your high/low strings in octaves. You can't separate trumpets from horns (with forced octaves), or trombones from tuba (forced octaves again), or flutes from clarinets (forced octaves), etc. It's lightweight and easy to use, and sounds great, but it's not all that flexible or extensive. It definitely leads you toward a certain sound. If you like the demos, and want to sound like that, then you will likely enjoy the library. But if you actually want to get into your own orchestration, this isn't the library for that. The soloists do offer a little bit of flexibility there, though. Also, the big ensemble patches are great for broad strokes sketching.
I view Berlin Inspire as a "buy into our (expensive) ecosystem" gateway drug. It's rather cool for what it is, but will eventually leave you wanting more, in my opinion. It's a fun library with a good sound, and especially worth considering as it's discounted 25% off at the moment, but I don't know that it's necessarily worth full price, personally.
Berlin Inspire is cool, if you like that tone. You can't deviate much from it; you just get that one mic mix, so you're kind of tied into that reverb. Additionally, it's kind of barebones as far as articulations go, mostly just bread and butter stuff like one long, one short, and legato, with a few exceptions like the occasional trill, marcato, pizz for strings). And you don't really get individual sections; it's pre-orchestrated, so you only get your high/low strings in octaves. You can't separate trumpets from horns (with forced octaves), or trombones from tuba (forced octaves again), or flutes from clarinets (forced octaves), etc. It's lightweight and easy to use, and sounds great, but it's not all that flexible or extensive. It definitely leads you toward a certain sound. If you like the demos, and want to sound like that, then you will likely enjoy the library. But if you actually want to get into your own orchestration, this isn't the library for that. The soloists do offer a little bit of flexibility there, though. Also, the big ensemble patches are great for broad strokes sketching.
I view Berlin Inspire as a "buy into our (expensive) ecosystem" gateway drug. It's rather cool for what it is, but will eventually leave you wanting more, in my opinion. It's a fun library with a good sound, and especially worth considering as it's discounted 25% off at the moment, but I don't know that it's necessarily worth full price, personally.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 309 posts since 9 Nov, 2018 from Colorado
Thanks, funky lime, for your valuable thoughts! I'll take them into consideration!
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- KVRer
- 23 posts since 3 May, 2019
Symphony Series is pretty not great. Considering its age (lack of) it's quite bad, especially compared to other libraries.
BBCSO Core is a comprehensive and cohesive package from Spitfire Audio. It's a bit harder to push into louder dynamics but all around for its price, it is hard to beat as a starter library. It's now the #1 library I recommend for a starter package. It had one microphone but the room isn't as roomy sounding as Berlin stuff.
Berlin Inspire 1 is alright. It gives a pretty good overview of how the Berlin orchestra sounds. The other guy is right. It's not particularly loaded with instruments and artics. It sounds nice but you are locked into the reverberant room. It uses samples from the Berlin orchestra libraries which is why it gives a good idea on how it sounds in general. It's good as a layer/lazy music but you don't get much room to really arrange the instruments how you want.
BBCSO Core is a comprehensive and cohesive package from Spitfire Audio. It's a bit harder to push into louder dynamics but all around for its price, it is hard to beat as a starter library. It's now the #1 library I recommend for a starter package. It had one microphone but the room isn't as roomy sounding as Berlin stuff.
Berlin Inspire 1 is alright. It gives a pretty good overview of how the Berlin orchestra sounds. The other guy is right. It's not particularly loaded with instruments and artics. It sounds nice but you are locked into the reverberant room. It uses samples from the Berlin orchestra libraries which is why it gives a good idea on how it sounds in general. It's good as a layer/lazy music but you don't get much room to really arrange the instruments how you want.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 309 posts since 9 Nov, 2018 from Colorado
Thank you, Tekkera! I hadn't considered that one.
Something relevant that I probably should have mentioned is that the music I would want to make would be more traditional stuff, perhaps from the classical and romantic era. It seems a lot of these libraries are tailored to making trailer music and epic fantasy video game soundtracks and the like. I am not really a huge fan of 20th Century cinematic orchestration, especially not the sort of thing you hear in all the movies in the earlier half of that century. I just want to pretend I am Mozart or something! (I wish!)
Also, I have no professional aspirations here, just personal exploration.
I would like, if possible, to have a selection of decent individual instruments rather than having nothing but big ensembles or sections. It would probably be good to have some of both. I am guessing that what I want is going to cost more than I can spend, especially at a my currently casual level of interest!
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- KVRAF
- 1530 posts since 17 Sep, 2002
You could always consider Amadeus by Sonic Scores. It's got everything separated out rather than pre-orchestrated ensembles, runs in Kontakt Player, and is only $150.
Sound quality is... well... listen to the demos. Cory Pelizzari has a good overview of it. It's definitely not the most realistic sound by any means, but functionally, it would be much better suited for your purposes than the ensemble libraries. I just wonder how much of an advantage it has over, say, the Kontakt factory library combined with the free BBC Discover.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXNiE7DKzIg
Sound quality is... well... listen to the demos. Cory Pelizzari has a good overview of it. It's definitely not the most realistic sound by any means, but functionally, it would be much better suited for your purposes than the ensemble libraries. I just wonder how much of an advantage it has over, say, the Kontakt factory library combined with the free BBC Discover.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXNiE7DKzIg
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
It’s a big subject, impossible to prescribe things w.out knowing more about the extent of understanding or interest.
The inexpensive things tend towards prefab whole sections.
I wouldn’t buy the orch things in Komplete Ultimate, too lacking in detail and articulations.
I only use Kontakt for orchestra for a few things, mostly old gigastudio-era VSL I translated and rejigged using OTS Mind Control (long story).
For me, Orchestral Tools has done the most with the UI. They’re coming out with their own engine, I haven’t checked recently.
The inexpensive things tend towards prefab whole sections.
I wouldn’t buy the orch things in Komplete Ultimate, too lacking in detail and articulations.
I only use Kontakt for orchestra for a few things, mostly old gigastudio-era VSL I translated and rejigged using OTS Mind Control (long story).
For me, Orchestral Tools has done the most with the UI. They’re coming out with their own engine, I haven’t checked recently.
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
If the main interest is detail, individual instruments and chamber music*, you need to look at VSL. The products mentioned are not *this, AFAICT.
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- KVRer
- 23 posts since 3 May, 2019
That's what you would he getting with BBCSO Core. It is a generalist library weighted towards more subtle dynamics rather than super epic loud music. It has all the instruments you will need. It doesn't use weird combo stuff like Inspire 1 Violins 1+ Violins 2. You get all the section parts. Violins 1, violins 2, violas, cellos, contrabass. Etc etc for each instrument type.JO512 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:09 pmI would want to make would be more traditional stuff, perhaps from the classical and romantic era. It seems a lot of these libraries are tailored to making trailer music and epic fantasy video game soundtracks and the like.
I would like, if possible, to have a selection of decent individual instruments rather than having nothing but big ensembles or sections.
What is unique about this library compared to nucleus, Amadeus, Albion 1, and Inspire.
You get a full dynamic range, and every instrument section split. It is a true all in one orchestra that doesn't compromise much aside from a little more dynamics. Even then it still has way more. It's a very cohesive all in one
In the future you can upgrade to Pro and you will get some extra instruments, and the ability to make microphone mixes. It is currently the best of the best for all in one starter libraries as of recent. The core package is a brand new thing. It only recently came out like a month or two ago.
Before that, nucleus was the highlight. But nucleus is more aimed at the hyped up modern orchestra rather than a more subdued classic style. It also has way less artics and instruments.
If you would like more information I will be happy to help.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 309 posts since 9 Nov, 2018 from Colorado
Thank you all for your great advice!
I love most kinds of music. The majority of what I've dabbled with so far in my exploration of making music is rock, post rock, ambient, and electronic stuff. But my favorite piece of music of all time is Mozart's Requiem in D Minor. It's like a cathedral of sound! Nothing inspires me musically or moves me like that! But such things seem so far from my grasp! What he did there (many others were involved, of course!) has long seemed godlike to me. But the more I learn, the less inaccessible it seems. I am beginning to think that just maybe, I could play a bit in this field too! I have no illusions about a career here, or accomplishing anything extraordinary, especially this late in the game. I just want to see if I have some of this in me! Sometimes I have dreams in which I am making the most extraordinary music! Sadly, upon waking, I only have faint sense of what it was.
So, right now, there is a spark. Whether it will fizzle out or turn into a blaze, I don't know! It seems like playing with a decent library might further inspire me. But since I don't know how serious I'll be about this long-term, I don't want to spend a fortune! It would help if the library I get can be sold later just in case I lose interest in taking my musical interest in this direction.
The first time I played with Session Strings, I ended up with this. I am not sure if it really works, especially in toward the end. And the part where it changes is a bit odd. Anyway, it was a first experiment along these lines!
https://soundcloud.com/user-260326741/s ... U3x8SvNWoi
Thanks again, all of you!
Never heard of it. I'll look into it!
The extent of my understanding is pretty limited! I've never formally studied music and have only in the last couple of years started learning the basics of theory, piano, and guitar. And I am 44. As for level of interest, I don't really know yet. Just playing a bit with Session Strings in Komplete and a few instruments in the Kontakt factory library has me intrigued. I am getting results that inspire me to go further in this direction.
I love most kinds of music. The majority of what I've dabbled with so far in my exploration of making music is rock, post rock, ambient, and electronic stuff. But my favorite piece of music of all time is Mozart's Requiem in D Minor. It's like a cathedral of sound! Nothing inspires me musically or moves me like that! But such things seem so far from my grasp! What he did there (many others were involved, of course!) has long seemed godlike to me. But the more I learn, the less inaccessible it seems. I am beginning to think that just maybe, I could play a bit in this field too! I have no illusions about a career here, or accomplishing anything extraordinary, especially this late in the game. I just want to see if I have some of this in me! Sometimes I have dreams in which I am making the most extraordinary music! Sadly, upon waking, I only have faint sense of what it was.
So, right now, there is a spark. Whether it will fizzle out or turn into a blaze, I don't know! It seems like playing with a decent library might further inspire me. But since I don't know how serious I'll be about this long-term, I don't want to spend a fortune! It would help if the library I get can be sold later just in case I lose interest in taking my musical interest in this direction.
The first time I played with Session Strings, I ended up with this. I am not sure if it really works, especially in toward the end. And the part where it changes is a bit odd. Anyway, it was a first experiment along these lines!
https://soundcloud.com/user-260326741/s ... U3x8SvNWoi
Does that also include the full versions of Symphony Series in Collector's Edition?
I'll check their stuff out!
I'm looking at this one now. This library is getting a lot of praise. Might be a good choice! I filled out the questionnaire to get the free version at least.
Thanks again, all of you!
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
A whole orchestra is probably not the wiser move at this point. The detail and control (strings writing irl is ‘desked’, confer VSL Dimension Strings, or LASS.) comes at a price.
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Scarlet Pumpernickel Scarlet Pumpernickel https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=402106 - KVRist
- 239 posts since 30 Jul, 2017
If you didn't buy anything from Spitfire Audio before, you have 30% discount (excl. Originals and SA) till the end of June.
I'm personally interested in BBC SO Core, partly because it has solo instruments and doesn't take too much space. To me it's biggest drawbacks are lack of larger section patches (AFAIC) and a single microphone mix.
Berlin Orchestra Inspire 1 seems to be functionally similar but a bit more expensive (currently sells for 299).
Is there any other orchestral products that are in the same ballpark? (costing <300, requiring <35GB).
Sorry for partially hijacking the thread.
I'm personally interested in BBC SO Core, partly because it has solo instruments and doesn't take too much space. To me it's biggest drawbacks are lack of larger section patches (AFAIC) and a single microphone mix.
Berlin Orchestra Inspire 1 seems to be functionally similar but a bit more expensive (currently sells for 299).
Is there any other orchestral products that are in the same ballpark? (costing <300, requiring <35GB).
Sorry for partially hijacking the thread.
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- KVRAF
- 1530 posts since 17 Sep, 2002
Vienna Smart Orchestra + Expansion is about $300 + $30 for the dongle, seems interesting, ~10gb.
And EWQL Symphonic Orchestra + Choirs is on sale for $245, looks like the orchestra part weighs about 33gb. Seems rather dated though, and wet.
Still toying with the idea of grabbing BBC Core myself; we probably won't ever get a price lower than the current ~$280, but I'm a bit put off by the wetness/single-mic.
Guess I'll probably just hold off and see if we're all still alive for Black Friday.
And EWQL Symphonic Orchestra + Choirs is on sale for $245, looks like the orchestra part weighs about 33gb. Seems rather dated though, and wet.
Still toying with the idea of grabbing BBC Core myself; we probably won't ever get a price lower than the current ~$280, but I'm a bit put off by the wetness/single-mic.
Guess I'll probably just hold off and see if we're all still alive for Black Friday.
