KVR Audio

TB-ProAudio · Post by **TB-ProAudio** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:34 pm

TBProAudio has released GainRider, the (vocal-) gain riding tool, which gives you full control over the gain riding process.

Features:

    - Easy setup of algorithm sensitivity
    - Detailed control of gain modification (min, max, idle)
    - Exact control when gain modification happens (pre delay)
    - Large display to monitor visually impact of plugin parameters
    - Flexible pre filter including preset ITU 1770 filter curve
    - DAW side chaining (VST3/RTAS) or channel 3+4 (VST2)
    - Read/Write automation data
    - A/B control

System Requirements:

   - VST2/VST3/RTAS/AAX 32/64 Plugins for Windows
    - VST2/VST3/RTAS/AU/AAX 32/64 Plugins for Mac OS X
   - 32/64Bit DAW under Microsoft Windows XP SP3 and newer
   - 32/64Bit DAW under Mac OS X 10.5 and newer
   - Tested with: Cockos Reaper, Steinberg Cubase/Nuendo/Wavelab 6
   - Demo version available

Price: 59€

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:06 pm

Sorry for my insensitivity, but why should we spend 59EUR on a Vocal Gain Riding plugin, if the competition offers similar features (if not more suitable ones) at a lower price?

Furthermore, why are the most important features being turned off in the demo (the prefilter and sidechaining comes to mind - something really essential to test!)?

Also, while reading the manual, the "timeframes" make no sense to me.

If the "bass instruments" timeframe is 100-250ms, that's faster than a standard RMS meter (most common usage IMO!). Of course the pre-filter will have an influence on the processing (which can't be used in the demo), but else it doesn't make sense IMO. Furthermore, if the ITU-R BS.1770-x spec was used, I can actually only use the 3s SLk timeframe, not the MLk one (400ms), since the plugin only offers 100-250ms and 500ms. Heck 500ms unweighted is still too fast for basic K-System "usability".

So in actual usage, I see a lot of issues. The "loudness measurement" seems to be independent from the gain riding/automation process as well. But hey, at least it's using the correct values.

So yeah... am I missing something essential here?

TB-ProAudio · Post by **TB-ProAudio** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:49 pm

Hi Compifox,

thank you for your input:

Riding speed and RMS time frame is strictly linked (except EBUR128 mode), so shorter time frame (= higher sensitivity) gives higher ride speed.

Regarding EBR R128 Mode: it was a design decision to base the leveling on the 3000ms SLk value.

Regards
TBProAudio

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:13 pm

I like the fact that you chose SLk for pure measurement purposes.
But having more control(!) over the "ride speed" as you call it, would be a tad better IMO.

At least give us 300ms for analysis.
Again, here the competition is more flexible. But unless you go "pro versions" on some of them, you don't have pre-filters. Again, something that you can't test with your demo version.

So to me, it's hard to shell out 60EUR incl. VAT (or MwSt), if I actually can't test what's essential with such a tool like this. Then again, it's rare that I need a "vocal rider" - I find these things just too unpredictable for my taste.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:49 pm

It looks interesting, but vocal rider often goes for 49 or something (USD), then there is melda with constant sales and of course the very cheap hornet plugins one (a few bucks)

Perhaps consider an intro discount like many devs do, and a FULLY functional demo?

regardless, congrats on the release, it's a great gui too

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:00 am

Hey I just noticed there is no AU, what a shame! Do you plan to release one?

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:20 am

I haven't installed it, but the website says AU is included and Pacifist is showing an AU in the installer.

Before people start slapping the guy around over price, wouldn't it be an idea to test the darn thing first? If it works better than Vocal Rider or is more flexible, then surely the price is justified. If it doesn't just keep using the Waves. In any case, there's a Pro Tools-only one, Wave Rider, that some people prefer that costs $150 or so. If it doesn't work as well, it's not going to do as well...

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:18 am

Ok sorry, KVR release notes say no AU, and it says logic wasn't tested in the listed hosts...

I will try it now then.

all i meant was, it has to be BETTER than vocal rider, and certainly better then the hornet or melda, to justify the price, but i think Copy was a little TOO harsh.

I retract my comments till i tried it. If it is a REALLY REALLY good vocal rider, then it IS worth every penny.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:33 am

There's nothing to test, yes there is an AU,. but all the stuff needed is greyed out.. in other words is a basic functional thing.. i'd rather have a demo that beeps and it takes a lot for me to say THAT lol.

Basically he has cut out the sensitivity and range control! LOL!

Also it has ALOT of latency. How do waves and melda and hornet do it with little to none?

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:17 pm

TheoM wrote:Basically he has cut out the sensitivity and range control! LOL!

OK, that's not going to make a sensible demo easy.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:35 pm

Well it's interesting cause i really tried...

i opened a level vocal file and chopped it into 16 bits (over only 2 bars, so lots of little chops) and varied the clip gain on all of them.

Melda more or less evened it out, unbelievably impressive, vocal rider, meh, not very good, need to try hornet still, and i couldn't get any result out of TB pro audio at all. So i don't know if it's a demo issue or if i am doing something wrong.

The thing is, the way it is showing in real time how it reads the levels (and it IS tracking accurately), i got all excited and thought (ok this is going to be the best of the lot) - and there is a sidechain too, so on paper it's all there to be the absolute best rider.. but i fiddled with the demo provided and couldn't get any decent results.. so.. for now.. until a proper demo is provided.. pass. What can i say? I tried.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:39 pm

TheoM wrote:all i meant was, it has to be BETTER than vocal rider, and certainly better then the hornet or melda, to justify the price, but i think Copy was a little TOO harsh.

Then you summed it up yourself yet again - the same I did with my first comment:

TheoM wrote:There's nothing to test, yes there is an AU,. but all the stuff needed is greyed out.. in other words is a basic functional thing.. i'd rather have a demo that beeps and it takes a lot for me to say THAT lol.

So an objective demo is not possible if I can't even test the essential features of this plugin. Certainly wasn't too harsh. Unless we have a rule now on KVR where you have to be "political correct" or something.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:42 pm

Fair enough sorry.

Gamma-UT · Post by **Gamma-UT** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:38 pm

Compyfox wrote:So an objective demo is not possible if I can't even test the essential features of this plugin. Certainly wasn't too harsh. Unless we have a rule now on KVR where you have to be "political correct" or something.

I don't think there's anything wrong in saying it's worth testing stuff before announcing whether it's overpriced or not. I'd have thought it would be a professional attitude to test first and decide afterwards. A laundry list of features is practically useless as a comparison if the tool does not satisfy them or contains features not included in the initial list.

I gave it a go against Vocal Rider on some deliberately dodgy spoken word stuff – same distance from microphone to avoid proximity effect problems but with sudden changes in volume – varying between Brian Blessed and Whispering Bob Harris.

The demo restrictions don't do Gain Rider too many favours – the target range is too narrow to fully exercise it, although it did a better job of keeping things within range somewhat better than Vocal Rider used live or with automation writing.

However, Vocal Rider tends to do a better job of being less noticeable. I could hear Gain Rider really clamp down on one segment and then release while Vocal Rider was a lot gentler and probably would need less correction after the fact. It's hard to know how well the Sensitivity control would deal with that issue as it's one of the disabled features.

I didn't feel that I couldn't demo it but the restrictions don't really help the dev's cause, unless the approach is to be like Massey in offering a cut-down version as a free tool with the remainder 'unlocked' after purchase.

TB-ProAudio · Post by **TB-ProAudio** » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:47 pm

Hi TheoM,

TheoM wrote:Also it has ALOT of latency.

as GainRider uses true loudness measurement based on RMS some internal delay is necessary to adjust the gain on time. This internal delay causes latency, which is not a problem for a modern DAW.
But this latency stops usage in live environment.

Regards
TBProAudio

TBProAudio releases GainRider, the gain riding plugin for Windows and Mac OS X