Mix Challenge - Gossip and Discussion

How to do this, that and the other. Share, learn, teach. How did X do that? How can I sound like Y?
KVRAF
14476 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany

Post Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:04 am

Thanks for the information, No_Use. Definitely appreciated.


On that behalf:
Compyfox wrote:
  • there is planned to be a PDF with statistics of the current entries. Like: submitted track's average signal strength, max average signal strength, max digital signal strength, comments on rule violations. A PDF is more streamlined than writing that down in the thread
I'm finished with the first half of the PDF.

Meaning, I already noted down the values from the analysis. The PDF will have the following readouts: Loudness (Average and Maximum in dBFS RMS and Range in LU), Digital Max Peak (in dBTP), Dynamic Range (mathematical value from max loudness to max digital peak, rounded down to one digit as decimal place - pretty much non-important these days, it's just there as additional info), the reference level (that I think was used), the used Sample Rate and Bitrate and the rule violations.

This statistics sheet is for learning purposes.
The monster work is listening to the tracks and noting down possible rule violations/warnings.


Just a sidenote...
If this would be a real C2B relationship, users H-Man, Yeager and wesleyt would have run into troubles. Because their peak values are either over 0dBFS (read: clipping!), or way too high for a mastering house. Though H-Man's track can be easily fixed since it's in 48/32, but Yeager's track can't be repaired since it's in 44/16. wesleyt's track clocks in at about -0,12dBTP. Everyone else had a healthy peak headroom of about -3,5dB on average.


More on that the next days.


And once more:
Nobody is being disqualified.
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KVRian
1168 posts since 28 Jun, 2005

Post Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:48 am

Compyfox wrote: Yeager ... would have run into troubles. Yeager's track can't be repaired since it's in 44/16.
I knew that guy was a loser the minute I laid eyes on him :hihi:

KVRAF
14476 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany

Post Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:33 am

The voting process has started.

Please enjoy the tracks, and please also take note of the new rules.


EDIT:
We now have a Twitter trend that you can find and follow:
#kvrmixchallenge
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KVRAF
14476 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany

Post Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:06 pm

Teaser for MC03:
The next track will feature female vocals.

We're currently in preparations for MC03 to start on 1st August (+/- 2 days).
Check back every day for a new hint what the next track might be. We'd like to make it extra suspenseful this time around.

Compyfox wrote:We now have a Twitter trend that you can find and follow:
#kvrmixchallenge
Use this hastag and share your thoughts on Twitter, hook up your friends, vote for KVR MC02 (if you have a KVR account and are a bystander), join future Mix Challenges.

It can only get better from here on out.
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KVRAF
14476 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany

Post Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:14 pm

Teaser 02 for MC03:
The next track will have around 122bpm.



Also... less than 3 days left for the voting process of MC02. Would love to see more "bystanders" (regular listeners) joining the fun. We will(!) draw one lucky winner out of the pool on top of the top three licenses we can give away.
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KVRAF
14476 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany

Post Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:59 pm

Teaser 03 for MC03:
The next track will have around 20 tracks for the playback, and 3-5 tracks for the vocals.
The length of this track is over 5 minutes.



On top of that, less than 2 days left for the voting process of MC02. According to satYatunes, who is in charge of the voting this time around, almost all participants voted. But only one regular listener.

We also still miss feedback on the Submissions in the official "Submission Feedback and Q&A" thread. Looks like everything poofed into thin air? Is there no learning process? Is it the heat? Is it due to the summer holiday season?

Please talk to us, people.
Else we don't know what's up and can't improve on things.
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KVRAF
14476 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany

Post Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:04 am

Teaser 04 for MC03:
The genre of the next track will be "Deep Tech House"



About 3 hours left on the clock for the voting process.

We try to get MC03 on the road within the next 48 hours. So please watch this spot.
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KVRAF
14476 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany

Post Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:07 pm

The KVR Mix Challenge 03 just went live.

This month's song is called "If I get lost" by Eric Dahlberg (Uncle E), and is a Deep Tech House tune with really great vocals, even if the lyrics are a bit depressive.

The current "month exclusive" sponsor is U-HE.



Then I messed up a bit on time limits. The MC02 voting process is still running for the next 22 hours. satYatunes will then take over and announce the top three participants (and therefore the winners). The "bonus license" will be drawn out of anyone who voted. So if you're not a mix participant, but would like to have a chance to win some nice tools, cast your vote.



We will also see a change with the KVR MC02 Submissions Feedback and Q&A thread. It will be unpinned, but won't vanish in the depths of the archives. Please further contribute, share your stories what you learned in the process. The more feedback, the better we can all benefit from that and improve on things.



Speaking of sharing:
Share a link to the Mix Challenge among your friends, spread the word while using the Twitter hashtag #kvrmixchallenge . Maybe we can exceed 20 participants with MC03 and see the rise of some new talents as well.
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KVRAF
14476 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany

Post Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:23 pm

An update on things:

The KVR MC02 voting has ended. User satYatunes will reveal the winners within the next couple of days.



I also finished editing the Rules for participants of the mix challenge in the Official Rules and Guidelines.

Looking at the positive feedback we got with the "Loudness Normalization" and the statistics, I added some additional rules why submitting a WAV track is now mandatory for the KVR Mix Challenge.

If you provided both WAV and MP3 files so far, it's definitely no extra work for you.
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KVRAF

Topic Starter

12341 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:24 am

Congratulations to our winner of the voter random drawing: H-Man!

Compyfox ran all the names of voters who were not challenge winners 75 times through random.org. H-Man now gets to choose between UVI Digital Synsations, UVI Mello, SONiVOX Pulse, SONiVOX Wobble, SONiVOX Twist, or SONiVOX Vocalizer as his prize.

KVRAF
14476 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany

Post Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:20 am

A couple of questions to the community:

The KVR MC threads were inspired by various challenges over the net, most notably the Music Cafe "Song Cafe Challenge" (or SCC in short). As we're in a constant movement in terms of ideas and changes, we want to ask for some feedback on an idea that popped up recently.


With MC01, we tried the KVR own voting system, but two people did not cast three votes as originally intended. The main advantage was, that this was out of our hands, everyone could see the votes at an instant. The main disadvantage are the fact that "public votes" can influence others, it's limited to about 20-30 participants, and it takes a load of layout space.

With MC02, we adapted the "hidden vote" system from the OSC, since satYatunes is a regular there and offered to go a similar route. The system has the advantage that people won't influence each other. It also has an advantage over clearly declaring winners and making it simpler in terms of "ties". Another advantage is the fact that IF you voted, you don't need to write down "I voted" in the main thread anymore (in theory), but rather say "I don't want to win anything". The main disadvantages are the fact that this is extra work done through KVR's PM system, people might think we are not objective and manipulate the votes in private to our favor.

With MC03, we want to improve on that. Also due to the fact that satYatunes is moving.
Currently we're undecided internal. One out of three is "let's go back to KVR votes, but one vote per person" (see MC01), another one is like "I don't have to time to stem this", and another one is like "as long as it's working - but why not go the SCC route?!"


The "Song Cafe Challenge" route:
The SCC route is pretty similar to a lot of challenges across several communities. They use a similar points system (first place get's 10 points, second place get's 9 points, etc), but they don't do it hidden - they do that in public.


I see a couple of advantages in that:
a) users clearly indicate that they voted
b) no PM's involved and therefore taking some work off of our hands
c) since it's a public vote, people can cross-check if we did the right math
d) the thread can be used as both for voting and feedback on the songs

Personally I'd go that route. But we initiators of the MC would love to get more feedback on this from you.


Feedback like:
1) Do you feel that the Submissions thread should be used for both Submissions and during the voting process for feedback and asking questions? If not, please state your reasons why?
2) Would you even further comment on the submissions thread? Is the information posted in there (documentation) suitable enough for you to learn new things?
3) What type of voting system would you see? (Votes through KVR's voting module, open votes, closed votes)

And most importantly:
Do you currently have fun while joining the MC?



We're doing this for the third month now, and it's still kind of ringing in my ears that the rules are too strict, that it's a "fun killer". Yet the MC02 saw new participants and they easily adapted to the rules and the concept. People even mentioned AFTER the last challenge (and the loudness normalization process, see the rules), that they will improve on their workflow. The so called "haters" didn't come back however.

Folks... we need feedback, we want your participation.
Please don't let this die out on us.



Furthermore:
We're still looking for plugin sponsors. Month exclusive ones, or even "set" ones (one for every month). If you want to sponsor something, please get in touch with us.

We are also looking for new songs to mix. We still have 1-2 songs in the queue, but we'd love to have access to more vocal tracks, genres like HipHop, Electronic in general (especially: TripHop, DnB, Complextro), Orchestra material (with or without vocals), Rock/Metal. More vocal work in general (yes, even Acapella stuff is more than welcome and a great challenge!).


Spread the word, get in touch with us, discuss on Twitter (hashtag: #kvrmixchallenge ) and especially in here on KVR. Let's keep the mix challenge alive and interesting.
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KVRian
601 posts since 5 Mar, 2011 from Austria

Post Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:56 am

Hi,

Usually I am not the guy who writes a lot in the forum. But here I want to keep this MC alive. So here are some thoughts from my side:

Fun with the MC: definitely yes! I like to work with tracks from other artists and I appreciate the opportunity to compare my work with others. I did some mix from Mike Seniors site and put them in their dicussion forum. But there is not much feedback (especially for new entries), no voting because no competition and most of the time no comments about how they mixed. So in this KVR MC I can learn a lot more! :tu:

Voting: I like a hidden voting system to avoid the so called bandwagon effect. On the other hand, an open voting system lets you check your current ranking like the daily stock quotation :hihi:

Submissions thread should be used for both Submissions and during the voting process for feedback and asking questions? - Yes, this is quite handy for me.

I hope that more contender will write some notes to each tracks in future. Till now, there are only a few. But I think that I can learn more from the hints what went wrong than from the information what tool everyone is using.

See you in MC03 !
soundcloud.com/photonic-1

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

12341 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:02 pm

photonic wrote:I appreciate the opportunity to compare my work with others.
Yes, I'm liking that, too. I'm hoping that we'll get many more people voting since that will bring in a broader range of opinions, especially if it's people who don't participate in the contest itself since they won't be so close to the mixes.

KVRAF
14476 posts since 19 Oct, 2003 from Berlin, Germany

Post Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:20 pm

We are happy to announce the following update:

MC03 Month Exclusive Sponsor U-HE is not offering any-1 license out of their effect plugin range, but actually a free license out of their whole plugin and instrument range! That means - winners of the MC03 can choose to either get Zebra, DIVA, ACE, Bazille, SATIN, Uhbik, Filterscape or MFM2 if he/she's going for U-HE tools.

This is a very generous offer!


We're still strict in terms of rules however. :!: :!: :!:
So please keep up the efforts.


And please give more feedback on the questions above.
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KVRAF

Topic Starter

12341 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California

Post Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:39 pm

Satyatunes asked me a question by email and I thought it'd be nice to bring that discussion here:
satYatunes wrote:Don't you guys get to mix instrumental songs at all?
I mix mostly instrumental, electronic music. However, as you could hear in my mixes here, I favor drier, darker mixes. I want everything to sound like Billy Jean and that apparently isn't what anyone else is caring for. ;)

Also, to be honest, I'm using these mix challenges as a learning tool. I stay away from all my go-to plugins and I use techniques that I've never tried before. If I'm remembering correctly, I used very little other than NI's VC 160 and Satson for your mix. Also, I've put a big effort into working on my automation, I was actually a bit too heavy-handed with it on my Nine of Kings mix and I think I could have been more heavy-handed with it on your mix (though it was still more than I usually do). I want to get good at it here so I can be more confident about using it in my own mixes.

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