Are Rules REALLY Meant To Be Broken?

[wagtunes]

Since studying up on processing various genres (mostly EDM and rock) I keep running into video tutorials that say there are no rules or rules are meant to be broken. Do what you think works.

But is this really true? I mean if you want to produce a basic EDM track that is going to be generally accepted by the public, can you really break the rules or are you just looking for trouble?

I seem to get mixed signals from these tutorials. On the one hand they say "no rules" but then everybody goes and does the same thing. I swear it's almost like if you watched one EDM mix tutorial you've watched them all.

So what's the real truth? Are these people just saying the politically correct thing (because they don't want you to think they're just robots) or do they really mean what they say?

[donkey tugger]

It's a more nuanced thing that just yes or no, depends on what you're trying to do and in what context.

As an example, distorting vocals (or indeed guitars going back) was seen as a no-no. In some genres it still would be (gospel, country? I'm happy to be proven wrong... ) whilst in others such as industrial it's an integral part of the sound.

I'd say, they're not 'rules' but conventions which can be bent or even discarded depending on the context.

[dnekm]

Honestly? Why do you care?

When it comes to self-expression - in writing, in art, in music - your first goal should be - be true to yourself.

The rest falls by the wayside.

But that is not what you are asking.

[wagtunes]

It's a more nuanced thing that just yes or no, depends on what you're trying to do and in what context.

As an example, distorting vocals (or indeed guitars going back) was seen as a no-no. In some genres it still would be (gospel, country? I'm happy to be proven wrong... ) whilst in others such as industrial it's an integral part of the sound.

I'd say, they're not 'rules' but conventions which can be bent or even discarded depending on the context.

Actually, you're confirming what I'm saying. No, you wouldn't hear a screaming guitar solo on an EDM track and you wouldn't hear a trance lead on a country song. Each genre has its conventions which, for all practical purposes, are part of the "rules".

Bottom line. Every EDM track I hear basically has the same sound. Yes, the melodies are different and the drops may be in different places and so on and so forth, but the general overall sound is the same from track to track. Every kick pretty much sounds like it was processed the same way. And if you watch the videos, they are. There is very little variation.

And in some cases this sameness is so severe (for lack of a better term) when I actually tried to do a track of a particular genre, I was flat out told that it didn't sound like that genre even though I'm a decent enough of a musician to know that I absolutely wasn't that far off. But the kick wasn't quite right and the lead wasn't quite right and the FX weren't quite right. Oh, I was close but far enough away that the song wasn't a "true" track of that genre.

Now granted, this was from somebody who considers themselves an expert on that genre and not just a regular listener off the street who might not have noticed those little differences. But still, by the nature of this very feedback, I'm almost answering my own question. Unless you do EXACTLY what you're supposed to do on each aspect of the track, you're not authentic.

That tells me there are rules and no, they can't be broken.

[VELLTONE MUSIC]

My entire music enthusiasm comes from a sentence that an amateur keyboard player told me - 'Music is fantasy'
- no rules,no boundaries,no gravity

[donkey tugger]

It's a more nuanced thing that just yes or no, depends on what you're trying to do and in what context.

As an example, distorting vocals (or indeed guitars going back) was seen as a no-no. In some genres it still would be (gospel, country? I'm happy to be proven wrong... ) whilst in others such as industrial it's an integral part of the sound.

I'd say, they're not 'rules' but conventions which can be bent or even discarded depending on the context.

Actually, you're confirming what I'm saying. No, you wouldn't hear a screaming guitar solo on an EDM track and you wouldn't hear a trance lead on a country song. Each genre has its conventions which, for all practical purposes, are part of the "rules".

Bottom line. Every EDM track I hear basically has the same sound. Yes, the melodies are different and the drops may be in different places and so on and so forth, but the general overall sound is the same from track to track. Every kick pretty much sounds like it was processed the same way. And if you watch the videos, they are. There is very little variation.

And in some cases this sameness is so severe (for lack of a better term) when I actually tried to do a track of a particular genre, I was flat out told that it didn't sound like that genre even though I'm a decent enough of a musician to know that I absolutely wasn't that far off. But the kick wasn't quite right and the lead wasn't quite right and the FX weren't quite right. Oh, I was close but far enough away that the song wasn't a "true" track of that genre.

Now granted, this was from somebody who considers themselves an expert on that genre and not just a regular listener off the street who might not have noticed those little differences. But still, by the nature of this very feedback, I'm almost answering my own question. Unless you do EXACTLY what you're supposed to do on each aspect of the track, you're not authentic.

That tells me there are rules and no, they can't be broken.

I hear what you're saying..but I say f**k em. Someone, somewhere invents these 'new' ways of doing things which others follow. E.g. Someone had to be the first person to decide that that broken speaker on their guitar amp sounded good making the distorted noise and they weren't going to listen to what other people said about it. No reason it can't be you.

[JJ_Jettflow]

Actually, you're confirming what I'm saying. No, you wouldn't hear a screaming guitar solo on an EDM track and you wouldn't hear a trance lead on a country song. Each genre has its conventions which, for all practical purposes, are part of the "rules"....That tells me there are rules and no, they can't be broken.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAfc6i63OY0

[Robert Randolph]

Genres by definition classify music that sounds similar. The more of a sub-genre it is, the more specific the requirements.

When people say there's no rules, they're talking about music... not deep sub genres.

[wagtunes]

Genres by definition classify music that sounds similar. The more of a sub-genre it is, the more specific the requirements.

When people say there's no rules, they're talking about music... not deep sub genres.

Yes, that I understand. I've been writing songs for over 40 years and I've done it all. But within the context of a certain genre, there seems to be this rigidity that is almost impossible to get away from.

So when a person who is demonstrating specifically how to mix an EDM track says there is no rules but then goes and does EXACTLY what everybody else does, it's like they're talking just to talk and don't really believe what they say.

At least that's the way it comes across.

[Jace-BeOS]

It's possible they're just repeating a meme they don't understand. Video tutorials run the gamut between "brilliantly executed by skilled persons" (few) and "worthless garbage by clueless meat puppets" (many).

[Robert Randolph]

Genres by definition classify music that sounds similar. The more of a sub-genre it is, the more specific the requirements.

When people say there's no rules, they're talking about music... not deep sub genres.

Yes, that I understand. I've been writing songs for over 40 years and I've done it all. But within the context of a certain genre, there seems to be this rigidity that is almost impossible to get away from.

So when a person who is demonstrating specifically how to mix an EDM track says there is no rules but then goes and does EXACTLY what everybody else does, it's like they're talking just to talk and don't really believe what they say.

At least that's the way it comes across.

There's a VAST array of sub-genres in EDM. Basically every kick sound you could imagine is used somewhere, there's EDM with electric guitar solos, country singing, dobros, growling etc...

The "rules" really only come in to play when you're trying to target a specific sub-genre, because that is what a sub-genre is.

Most of these people making tracks have a specific thing they like, and that thing was influenced by other artists in the sub-genres that they enjoy. So naturally they're going to create things that they enjoy, which is once again naturally based off what they listen to.

However there's nothing that's preventing you from doing something else unless you're trying to target a specific audience of people that want specific sounds.

FWIW, I administrate one of the largest (and easily the most active) EDM production communities on the internet. I see it all when it comes to what 'can be done'. For that matter, I've seen some very unlikely combinations of sounds become popular or successful enough to support an artist.

[wagtunes]

It's possible they're just repeating a meme they don't understand. Video tutorials run the gamut between "brilliantly executed by skilled persons" (few) and "worthless garbage by clueless meat puppets" (many).

Except some of the top people in the business (supposedly) are saying the same thing. No rules and then go and do the same thing. Now not knowing the industry that well, when I watch a video and in the description it says that this is some industry pro, I really have no idea if that's true or not. But I've watched the seminars from that big convention out in Vegas and these people get introduced as having done albums for some pretty big starts who I have heard of. So I'd like to think that this is true. And these supposed big producers are all saying the same thing. No rules but then all proceed to mix a track basically the same way.

After a while, it gets almost comical.

[wagtunes]

Genres by definition classify music that sounds similar. The more of a sub-genre it is, the more specific the requirements.

When people say there's no rules, they're talking about music... not deep sub genres.

Yes, that I understand. I've been writing songs for over 40 years and I've done it all. But within the context of a certain genre, there seems to be this rigidity that is almost impossible to get away from.

So when a person who is demonstrating specifically how to mix an EDM track says there is no rules but then goes and does EXACTLY what everybody else does, it's like they're talking just to talk and don't really believe what they say.

At least that's the way it comes across.

There's a VAST array of sub-genres in EDM. Basically every kick sound you could imagine is used somewhere, there's EDM with electric guitar solos, country singing, dobros, growling etc...

The "rules" really only come in to play when you're trying to target a specific sub-genre, because that is what a sub-genre is.

Most of these people making tracks have a specific thing they like, and that thing was influenced by other artists in the sub-genres that they enjoy. So naturally they're going to create things that they enjoy, which is once again naturally based off what they listen to.

However there's nothing that's preventing you from doing something else unless you're trying to target a specific audience of people that want specific sounds.

FWIW, I administrate one of the largest (and easily the most active) EDM production communities on the internet. I see it all when it comes to what 'can be done'. For that matter, I've seen some very unlikely combinations of sounds become popular or successful enough to support an artist.

So then if I'm understanding you correctly, what you're saying is there are exceptions but those exceptions are just not the norm and thus why I personally haven't run into them.

So that person saying there are no rules could honestly mean there are no rules but just that for the particular track they're doing they're conforming to the rules.

Okay, so then where can I see video tutorials where industry pros are actually breaking the rules? I have yet to run into one. Seriously, I would like to see one video where the producer is doing something innovative or at least different from the same old same old.

[JJ_Jettflow]

Genres by definition classify music that sounds similar. The more of a sub-genre it is, the more specific the requirements.

When people say there are no rules, they're talking about music... not deep sub-genres.

Yes, that I understand. I've been writing songs for over 40 years and I've done it all. But within the context of a certain genre, there seems to be this rigidity that is almost impossible to get away from.

So when a person who is demonstrating specifically how to mix an EDM track says there is no rules but then goes and does EXACTLY what everybody else does, it's like they're talking just to talk and don't really believe what they say.

At least that's the way it comes across.

What's lacking in EDM as well as all computer-based music is that is missing the human element. Blues is a very restrictive based music as well but give the same blues song to five different, seasoned bluesmen, and you will get five different versions of the song. Each a blues song but each unique because of the player's style being injected into the arrangement.

[DocSnyder]

There aren't any rules. No-one forces the edm musicians to use supersaws, to sidechain, to keep the kick mono and dominant, to layer or to have rolling basses. But these are things that help to hear a pleasant sound in sub-genres. Then there are things that are just modern and successfull (some melody patterns, bass sounds, drops and even a certain clap/snare sound) and many edm musician are copycats at least once.

You can extend your thesis to any genre. I found tutorials for rock, hiphop and even jazz that sounded like they're doing and explaining the same. And we can agree that jazz has no rules