KVR Audio

newsonicarts · Post by **newsonicarts** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:45 pm

EvilDragon wrote:Well getting LightGuide going at least would be neat (showing splits and so on, because KK can't even do that as it stands now, LOL, as they can't load more than one instrument in, LOL again). Then macro controls of Freestyle could be pagerized to match how controller pages in NKS work (not sure if this is already possible in Freestyle, I'll be honest and say I didn't fully check it out). But perhaps a more important thing would be reusing their patch database along with those super useful audio previews...

Yeah LightGuide would be nice, and would be doable, but im not sure people would really want to use one sub-host inside another. Not sure the pages would work satisfactorily (although maybe) because they are dynamic inside Freestyle. Reuse of the DB I doubt is possible, unless the KK/Mas browser now drags NKS files as standard OS files (which was not the case while I was still involved, and makes total sense from an NI development perspective). What would be really great would be to have some next-level HW integration (via scripting) inside Freestyle...

EvilDragon wrote:But yeah I'm not sure if NI would allow you to create another NKS host, even if you remained on good terms with them. Especially after they killed YOUR baby.

Haha.. well Maschine may not have worked out exactly as I had in mind, but I certainly wouldnt say they killed it!!! LOL

It does a lot of great things, to be fair. Although I suspect you are rather referring to Kore? Well, for the record that was never my baby

EvilDragon wrote:EDIT: Reading comprehension 0% over here (or was just tired when checking out your website). "Freestyle supports unlimited Macro pages, and drag-and-drop reordering of controls and pages." This is great. You can't even drag&drop reorder pages in KK/Maschine... which is really annoying when developing an NKS product, which I do quite often, being a Kontakt scripter.

Well, what can I say. IMHO Freestyle does a lot of stuff Komplete Kontrol does plus a lot of stuff it doesn't. Disclaimer: I may be biased

newsonicarts · Post by **newsonicarts** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:53 pm

FYI today a new public-beta was added to the user area, which fixes the CC1 / CC64 issue.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:23 pm

Yeah, I meant Kore, sorry.

Your name is in credits dialog and is listed first, so that was my logical conclusion...

What do you mean by "unless the KK/Mas browser now drags NKS files as standard OS files", though? The databases are just mySQL with different extension, and all the info they collect (like tags, bank, sub-bank, type etc.) is also in individual files as well (but you know that already of course).

newsonicarts wrote:but im not sure people would really want to use one sub-host inside another

Believe it or not, but some of us do use Kore inside KK. Or KK inside Kore. I forget which combination actually works with BOTH hardware devices simultaneously (perhaps both do... it's been a while since I tried it).

But I assume you could make LightGuide work directly from Freestyle, without it being subhosted in KK? Some guy did a bit of reverse engineering of USB protocol used by KK:

https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... ts.320806/

Apparently NI is fine with this since the thread is there for months and nobody removed it...

newsonicarts · Post by **newsonicarts** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:58 pm

EvilDragon wrote:Yeah, I meant Kore, sorry. Your name is in credits dialog and is listed first, so that was my logical conclusion...

Probably shouldnt take this conversation much further out of respect to my former employers... But just to clarify, while I did lead the design for Kore 2, the original concept for Kore was of course developed by Stephan Schmitt. Maschine was more something I guess its fair to say I drove from the beginning, and a project much more personal to me.

EvilDragon wrote: What do you mean by "unless the KK/Mas browser now drags NKS files as standard OS files", though?

I think for Freestyle to work great inside KK, and to leverage the KK browser, you would want to drag NKS presets from the KK browser into the Freestyle editor and layer, split them etc. So you would need proper drag and drop interchange, and I dont think that is feasible.

EvilDragon wrote: Believe it or not, but some of us do use Kore inside KK. Or KK inside Kore. I forget which combination actually works with BOTH hardware devices simultaneously (perhaps both do... it's been a while since I tried it).

Thats interesting to hear. I guess what I find even more interesting though is the amount of people that still use Kore 2 today, even what 5(?) years since it was discontinued! I'd be interested to hear more from users about how/what they use it for...

EvilDragon wrote: But I assume you could make LightGuide work directly from Freestyle, without it being subhosted in KK? Some guy did a bit of reverse engineering of USB protocol used by KK:

Will take a look at the thread, just out of curiosity though

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:35 pm

newsonicarts wrote:
EvilDragon wrote: What do you mean by "unless the KK/Mas browser now drags NKS files as standard OS files", though?
I think for Freestyle to work great inside KK, and to leverage the KK browser, you would want to drag NKS presets from the KK browser into the Freestyle editor and layer, split them etc. So you would need proper drag and drop interchange, and I dont think that is feasible.

At least in Reaper, when I drag a preset from KK outside of its GUI area, it doesn't give me a "forbidden" symbol, I do get an icon to drop an object into Reaper. Nothing happens, though. In KK standalone, I do get a "forbidden" symbol when dragging outside of GUI bounds. Boo.

newsonicarts wrote:
EvilDragon wrote: Believe it or not, but some of us do use Kore inside KK. Or KK inside Kore. I forget which combination actually works with BOTH hardware devices simultaneously (perhaps both do... it's been a while since I tried it).
Thats interesting to hear. I guess what I find even more interesting though is the amount of people that still use Kore 2 today, even what 5(?) years since it was discontinued! I'd be interested to hear more from users about how/what they use it for...

Mostly sound design, because it is impeccable for that. Morphing the snapshots can be extremely satisfying (so you probably know where Freestyle should be going, ehehe

), and the controller is quite simple to use too. What I find more interesting is that Kore 2 STILL WORKS, both in W10 (no surprise there, MS is at least very good when it comes to backwards compatibility), but it ALSO works on even High Sierra, so it survived all the Apple tomfoolery of OS updates... THAT should be considered triumphant in its own right.

One thing that Kore did right and where KK/Mas dropped the ball (at least when NKS is concerned) is that one control can only be linked to one automatable parameter of a plugin, and one parameter only. No scaling or inverting or anything like that. This is where Kore shines: you could map any number of parameters on a single knob, scale them, and so on. And you could repeat the parameter on other pages, too (something NKS is very strongly against unfortunately).

ians · Post by **ians** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:58 pm

I love Freestyle as a sound design tool, especially with a live guitar input, but have pretty much stopped using it as it crashes on start up most of time. I know there a a few rogue plugins that it doesn't like but cant be bothered to figure out which ones anymore.

newsonicarts · Post by **newsonicarts** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:37 am

ians wrote:I love Freestyle as a sound design tool, especially with a live guitar input, but have pretty much stopped using it as it crashes on start up most of time. I know there a a few rogue plugins that it doesn't like but cant be bothered to figure out which ones anymore.

Sorry to hear that. The VST scan shouldnt crash, it runs in a seperate process exactly to prevent that. I'm thinking this may rather be due to a corrupt cache or config file, I will PM you.

newsonicarts · Post by **newsonicarts** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:53 am

EvilDragon wrote:What I find more interesting is that Kore 2 STILL WORKS, both in W10 (no surprise there, MS is at least very good when it comes to backwards compatibility), but it ALSO works on even High Sierra, so it survived all the Apple tomfoolery of OS updates... THAT should be considered triumphant in its own right.

Yeah that is pretty impressive.

EvilDragon wrote:One thing that Kore did right and where KK/Mas dropped the ball (at least when NKS is concerned) is that one control can only be linked to one automatable parameter of a plugin, and one parameter only. No scaling or inverting or anything like that. This is where Kore shines: you could map any number of parameters on a single knob, scale them, and so on. And you could repeat the parameter on other pages, too (something NKS is very strongly against unfortunately).

Freestyle already has multi destinations, with ranges and invertion. Perhaps you should check it out

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:58 am

Looks like I should definitely check it out in more detail

newsonicarts · Post by **newsonicarts** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:03 pm

nordickvr wrote:Movement (Output) doesn't appear using Freestyle(1.2.512) within Logic (10.4.1) under High Sierra (10.13.3).

This is fixed now, in the latest public beta (in the User Area). Should be released officially soon. Thanks for reporting this.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:04 am

newsonicarts wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:What I find more interesting is that Kore 2 STILL WORKS, both in W10 (no surprise there, MS is at least very good when it comes to backwards compatibility), but it ALSO works on even High Sierra, so it survived all the Apple tomfoolery of OS updates... THAT should be considered triumphant in its own right.
Yeah that is pretty impressive.

EvilDragon wrote:One thing that Kore did right and where KK/Mas dropped the ball (at least when NKS is concerned) is that one control can only be linked to one automatable parameter of a plugin, and one parameter only. No scaling or inverting or anything like that. This is where Kore shines: you could map any number of parameters on a single knob, scale them, and so on. And you could repeat the parameter on other pages, too (something NKS is very strongly against unfortunately).
Freestyle already has multi destinations, with ranges and invertion. Perhaps you should check it out

I made a template for Freestyle that I use in Komplete Kontrol already - enables it to do what it can't yet but I can use the keyboard to control it all so it makes it almost like Kore. I can create complex multi instruments and fx and assign knobs to macros that instantly appear in KK and can be controlled by the hardware - macros also map more than one thing and you can define range etc (as in Kore)

I would love it if the two were better integrated.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:31 pm

aMUSEd wrote:
newsonicarts wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:What I find more interesting is that Kore 2 STILL WORKS, both in W10 (no surprise there, MS is at least very good when it comes to backwards compatibility), but it ALSO works on even High Sierra, so it survived all the Apple tomfoolery of OS updates... THAT should be considered triumphant in its own right.
Yeah that is pretty impressive.

EvilDragon wrote:One thing that Kore did right and where KK/Mas dropped the ball (at least when NKS is concerned) is that one control can only be linked to one automatable parameter of a plugin, and one parameter only. No scaling or inverting or anything like that. This is where Kore shines: you could map any number of parameters on a single knob, scale them, and so on. And you could repeat the parameter on other pages, too (something NKS is very strongly against unfortunately).
Freestyle already has multi destinations, with ranges and invertion. Perhaps you should check it out
I made a template for Freestyle that I use in Komplete Kontrol already - enables it to do what it can't yet but I can use the keyboard to control it all so it makes it almost like Kore. I can create complex multi instruments and fx and assign knobs to macros that instantly appear in KK and can be controlled by the hardware - macros also map more than one thing and you can define range etc (as in Kore)

I would love it if the two were better integrated.

Video demo of this - both apps work pretty synergistically to fill in each other's gaps: