Bitwig Studio 4 announced (+beta available)!

[syntonica]

Native M1 support is mind blowing accomplishment, didn’t expect that this fast, only that is worth v4, add comping it’s no brainer!

M1 is already supported by Xcode. Just flip a switch and compile. The only things affected are any assembly code and any SIMD instructions. Depending on how much is used and abstracted, things can be fixed in a day, a week, or a month by one programmer.

All that new GUI programming probably ate up most of their time.

Bitwig is on my shortlist for backup DAWs for when I get a new Mac and it just moved up a couple of notches due to the native M1 support. I wish everybody that's going to support it would just get it over with. I'm tired of waiting!

[SLiC]

Yup- I have no issue doing it (and everything else multi selected track related) thorough the inspector panel. It's not hard to remember and I always have the inspector open as it has so many uses. At least you have a mixer, try Live's session view for mixing!

What's wrong with Live's session view for mixing? Bitwig is not much better imo. At least in Live if I select multiple tracks I can directly edit them without having to go to some inspector to edit values. I can also edit sends across multiple tracks. They also have resizable faders. I'm not seeing how Bitwig is better in that regard. Can you elaborate?

I meant arrangement view (I can never remember what they are called!) - I mainly work and always mix in the liner DAW mode- no real mixer (and vertical is bad for my monitor size, I am long and thin)

Even in 'the other' view, not showing inserts is massive for me, resize is limited if you are just mixing- Bitwig wins on every level 'for me' as it can do everything Live mixer does (all be it in a different way in some cases) but even with the txt fudge Live is very poor at showing insert information (not at all by default) and I like to just look at mixers and level displays when mixing (full screen)

You cant tell me its not useful seeing the amount of compression, EQ curves and inserts for all tracks at the same when mixing with large VU displays!

[WasteLand]

lot of threads, i am barging in this one.

how strictly is bitwig for upgrades, my upgrade plan expires at june 26. V4 is expected end Q2/begin Q3, it can land on june 26, or a week later, or even later.

has anyone experience with this?

i am fine with the 3.3.x version, although i thought, i would do the upgrade plan when 4 arrives...
but it is coming too soon...

so, i won't weep, but still, if you can get it... so? experiences? is june 26 very fixed (it must be in a way, but 2 days later? o well i will not hold it against bitwig, as i said, still working with 3.3.x and gives me what i want, next to all other DAW's i have..)

[apoclypse]

Native M1 support is mind blowing accomplishment, didn’t expect that this fast, only that is worth v4, add comping it’s no brainer!

M1 is already supported by Xcode. Just flip a switch and compile. The only things affected are any assembly code and any SIMD instructions. Depending on how much is used and abstracted, things can be fixed in a day, a week, or a month by one programmer.

All that new GUI programming probably ate up most of their time.

Bitwig is on my shortlist for backup DAWs for when I get a new Mac and it just moved up a couple of notches due to the native M1 support. I wish everybody that's going to support it would just get it over with. I'm tired of waiting!

I would love to see performance metrics on M1 Bitwig vs Intel.

[SLiC]

Native M1 support is mind blowing accomplishment, didn’t expect that this fast, only that is worth v4, add comping it’s no brainer!

M1 is already supported by Xcode. Just flip a switch and compile. The only things affected are any assembly code and any SIMD instructions. Depending on how much is used and abstracted, things can be fixed in a day, a week, or a month by one programmer.

All that new GUI programming probably ate up most of their time.

Bitwig is on my shortlist for backup DAWs for when I get a new Mac and it just moved up a couple of notches due to the native M1 support. I wish everybody that's going to support it would just get it over with. I'm tired of waiting!

I would love to see performance metrics on M1 Bitwig vs Intel.

You can pretty much guarantee that will happen on a post! (windows user here preparing to be jealous....)

[apoclypse]

Yup- I have no issue doing it (and everything else multi selected track related) thorough the inspector panel. It's not hard to remember and I always have the inspector open as it has so many uses. At least you have a mixer, try Live's session view for mixing!

What's wrong with Live's session view for mixing? Bitwig is not much better imo. At least in Live if I select multiple tracks I can directly edit them without having to go to some inspector to edit values. I can also edit sends across multiple tracks. They also have resizable faders. I'm not seeing how Bitwig is better in that regard. Can you elaborate?

I meant arrangement view (I can never remember what they are called!) - I mainly work and always mix in the liner DAW mode- no real mixer (and vertical is bad for my monitor size, I am long and thin)

Even in 'the other' view, not showing inserts is massive for me, resize is limited if you are just mixing- Bitwig wins on every level 'for me' as it can do everything Live mixer does (all be it in a different way in some cases) but even with the txt fudge Live is very poor at showing insert information (not at all by default) and I like to just look at mixers and level displays when mixing (full screen)

You cant tell me its not useful seeing the amount of compression, EQ curves and inserts for all tracks at the same when mixing with large VU displays!

That really depends. I use 3rd party plugins (compressors, EQs, etc) and those fancy views don't work with those. At that point it's just taking up space for me. It's kind of the same issue I have with S1, except S1 at least has resizable faders which is really important to me as I don't have great eyesight and anything that can help even a little is a plus in my book. I'm not saying Live's mixer is better I just don't see Bitwig as being better either. They are about the same for me and I vastly prefer S1 or even Logic's mixer by a country mile. I wouldn't qualify Bitwig's mixer as "good".

For example going back to my original complaint about the mixer. I can't for example select multiple tracks and drag and drop a delay on all the selected channels.

[SLiC]

That really depends. I use 3rd party plugins (compressors, EQs, etc) and those fancy views don't work with those. At that point it's just taking up space for me. It's kind of the same issue I have with S1, except S1 at least has resizable faders which is really important to me as I don't have great eyesight and anything that can help even a little is a plus in my book. I'm not saying Live's mixer is better I just don't see Bitwig as being better either. They are about the same for me and I vastly prefer S1 or even Logic's mixer by a country mile. I wouldn't qualify Bitwig's mixer as "good".

I am not comparing Bitwig to S1, Cubase or even Reaper (I also use S1 for serious recording/mixing) I said it was better than Live and for me it is (I cant use the weird vertical mixer in Lives arrangement view at all, I want horizontal -so I think Bitwig is 100% better!)

I also use EQ8 in Bitwig now, its as good as my expensive '3rd party' eqs and has many advantages when used in Bitwig....not least of which is seeing the display on the mixer view!

PS, I also need 'reading glasses' now (old!) but find Bitwigs mixer much clearer than Live's, especially full screen- just look at those full screen meters!

[dplduffy]

lot of threads, i am barging in this one.

how strictly is bitwig for upgrades, my upgrade plan expires at june 26. V4 is expected end Q2/begin Q3, it can land on june 26, or a week later, or even later.

has anyone experience with this?

i am fine with the 3.3.x version, although i thought, i would do the upgrade plan when 4 arrives...
but it is coming too soon...

so, i won't weep, but still, if you can get it... so? experiences? is june 26 very fixed (it must be in a way, but 2 days later? o well i will not hold it against bitwig, as i said, still working with 3.3.x and gives me what i want, next to all other DAW's i have..)

I'm in the same boat as you (June 17 expiration). I e-mailed them to ask, I'll report back.

[Super Piano Hater 64]

M1 is already supported by Xcode. Just flip a switch and compile. The only things affected are any assembly code and any SIMD instructions. Depending on how much is used and abstracted, things can be fixed in a day, a week, or a month by one programmer.

...Or by four or five programmers in a year.

I mean, it's audio software. All that DSP code is probably rife with nonportable assembly and SIMD intrinsics. But even if there wasn't any, it's pretty easy to write nonportable C or C++ that works fine on x86/x64 and breaks horribly on ARM. Debugging that kind of problem sometimes requires very deep intimacy with subtle differences in the memory models.

Underestimating the effort involved in any of this doesn't do anybody any favors.

[syntonica]

From Bitwig's site, emphasis my own. This should have been in the lede:

"And Native Apple Silicon support on Mac, even allowing Intel and ARM plug-ins to work side-by-side."

[syntonica]

M1 is already supported by Xcode. Just flip a switch and compile. The only things affected are any assembly code and any SIMD instructions. Depending on how much is used and abstracted, things can be fixed in a day, a week, or a month by one programmer.

...Or by four or five programmers in a year.

I mean, it's audio software. All that DSP code is probably rife with nonportable assembly and SIMD intrinsics. But even if there wasn't any, it's pretty easy to write nonportable C or C++ that works fine on x86/x64 and breaks horribly on ARM. Debugging that kind of problem sometimes requires very deep intimacy with subtle differences in the memory models.

Underestimating the effort involved in any of this doesn't do anybody any favors.

I think we're both over-estimating the boundaries! They rolled it out in 6 months, probably a good chunk of that used strategizing how to move forward.

Replacing SIMD statements with macros that support both SSE+ and Neon should go pretty quickly. I'm not sure who still uses assembly anymore. Compilers, both gcc and clang, are monsters at optimization these days, including autovectorization. I think it's FLS that would take years due the all the native assembly I believe they still use.

Anyway, I'm happy they did it, I hope it wasn't too much trouble for them and any further discussion on this, we should probably take it over to the dev forum.

[pdxindy]

From Bitwig's site, emphasis my own. This should have been in the lede:

"And Native Apple Silicon support on Mac, even allowing Intel and ARM plug-ins to work side-by-side."

Yeah... even Logic doesn't do that!

[apoclypse]

From Bitwig's site, emphasis my own. This should have been in the lede:

"And Native Apple Silicon support on Mac, even allowing Intel and ARM plug-ins to work side-by-side."

Yeah... even Logic doesn't do that!

Really? I thought Logic had a bridge plugin like they did when they moved the 64-bit a few years back. In theory it should work just like Bitwig and M1 plugins would be hosted inside of Logic. I remember reading that was the case but haven't tested it myself. I believe you need to put Logic in native mode for it work that way. In Rosetta mode it just runs the Intel version of Logic.

[pdxindy]

From Bitwig's site, emphasis my own. This should have been in the lede:

"And Native Apple Silicon support on Mac, even allowing Intel and ARM plug-ins to work side-by-side."

Yeah... even Logic doesn't do that!

Really? I thought Logic had a bridge plugin like they did when they moved the 64-bit a few years back. In theory it should work just like Bitwig and M1 plugins would be hosted inside of Logic. I remember reading that was the case but haven't tested it myself. I believe you need to put Logic in native mode for it work that way. In Rosetta mode it just runs the Intel version of Logic.

I could be wrong... my understanding is that in native mode in Logic, you cannot use rosetta plugins.

[apoclypse]

From Bitwig's site, emphasis my own. This should have been in the lede:

"And Native Apple Silicon support on Mac, even allowing Intel and ARM plug-ins to work side-by-side."

Yeah... even Logic doesn't do that!

Really? I thought Logic had a bridge plugin like they did when they moved the 64-bit a few years back. In theory it should work just like Bitwig and M1 plugins would be hosted inside of Logic. I remember reading that was the case but haven't tested it myself. I believe you need to put Logic in native mode for it work that way. In Rosetta mode it just runs the Intel version of Logic.

I could be wrong... my understanding is that in native mode in Logic, you cannot use rosetta plugins.

Native mode opens a bridge plugin (very similar to what Bitwig does where it spawns a separate process to launch the plugin) that opens the rosetta or intel version of the plugin. Rosetta mode obviously only has access to the intel plugins.

There have been reports that launching plugins in native is slower and more resource heavy for obvious reasons as it has to launch the bridge process and launch the plugin afterwards.