Issues with creating loop regions in the sequence editor

[fycfung]

Hi Jo,
I have a couple of issues concerning the time bar in the sequence editor.

1. When using CM-101, if I set the first measure as the loop and turn on looping, then the first note hangs. It gets louder and louder with each loop. Ironically, this is the same problem I had with ACID Music Studio. I don't think it happens with all VSTi's but since you're bundling with CM-101, it it probably important to figure out. I wonder if it's Luna, CM-101, or some peculiarity with my setup?

2. I did mention this before but still find it critical: right now it is rather difficult to set up a loop starting at the beginning of a part, in the time bar, in the sequence editor. The reasons are
a. the "start flag" absorbs all the clicks where it is at, so I have to move it out of the way.
b. the close button comes right to the edge of where the time bar starts. It takes a lot of dexterity to start a loop there without closing the window.


I have three suggestions:
a. make the close button a little smaller and/or put a blank space before the time bar
b. make the start flag half-height so you can move the position marker to the start of the start flag
c. allow the loop marker to be created backwards by dragging as well as forwards.

3. I had a problem once with the position marker vanishing and refusing to redraw in the sequence editor but I haven't been able to reproduce it yet.

Thanks!

[fycfung]

Another thing about the first measure of the Bach invention looping with CM-101: if you do it, the first three times, it plays the first measure (with the stuck first note), and then the fourth time, it plays the first measure and then the first note of the second measure as well, then it doesn't do it after that (I have to stop it after a few more because the first note gets louder with each iteration).

[bambooman]

also have an issue:

part/choose player ???? (confusing expression)

this is not a sport game right,
so instead of "choose player"
it should be renamed to "choose plugin/instrument"

*

if i delete a synth, the fx i used will be deleted as well.
it would be better to have the choice wether i want to
delete the synth, or if i want to replace
the current synth with another, instead of deleting.

after changing instruments several times,
i get a crackling sound output, using asio/m-audio.
when using gtg sputnik 2000, it crackles...

[muzycian]

Hi Jo,
I have a couple of issues concerning the time bar in the sequence editor.

1. When using CM-101, if I set the first measure as the loop and turn on looping, then the first note hangs. It gets louder and louder with each loop. Ironically, this is the same problem I had with ACID Music Studio. I don't think it happens with all VSTi's but since you're bundling with CM-101, it it probably important to figure out. I wonder if it's Luna, CM-101, or some peculiarity with my setup?

Ok, i'm trying to reproduce this.

So is this the correct procedure to reproduce this:

->start luna
->open the demo session (with the bach track)
->select cm303 as the player for the bach part
->activate the composition loop in the Transport panel
->play

In this case, you get a louder and louder note, correct?

2. I did mention this before but still find it critical: right now it is rather difficult to set up a loop starting at the beginning of a part, in the time bar, in the sequence editor. The reasons are
a. the "start flag" absorbs all the clicks where it is at, so I have to move it out of the way.
b. the close button comes right to the edge of where the time bar starts. It takes a lot of dexterity to start a loop there without closing the window.

I have three suggestions:
a. make the close button a little smaller and/or put a blank space before the time bar
b. make the start flag half-height so you can move the position marker to the start of the start flag
c. allow the loop marker to be created backwards by dragging as well as forwards.

I like the suggestion of half-height flags.

What about this: just clicking the locator flag puts the position at the flag position.

3. I had a problem once with the position marker vanishing and refusing to redraw in the sequence editor but I haven't been able to reproduce it yet.

Maybe the part had ended?

[muzycian]

also have an issue:

part/choose player ???? (confusing expression)

this is not a sport game right,
so instead of "choose player"
it should be renamed to "choose plugin/instrument"

If it would be "Choose Plugin/Instrument" then this is not accurate for choosing a mixer strip as the player...

But i understand your point.

Well, let's see it at a music game for now

if i delete a synth, the fx i used will be deleted as well.
it would be better to have the choice wether i want to
delete the synth, or if i want to replace
the current synth with another, instead of deleting.

May come in a future version.

after changing instruments several times,
i get a crackling sound output, using asio/m-audio.
when using gtg sputnik 2000, it crackles...

Will check out sputnik 2000!

[muzycian]

Hi Jo,
I have a couple of issues concerning the time bar in the sequence editor.

1. When using CM-101, if I set the first measure as the loop and turn on looping, then the first note hangs. It gets louder and louder with each loop. Ironically, this is the same problem I had with ACID Music Studio. I don't think it happens with all VSTi's but since you're bundling with CM-101, it it probably important to figure out. I wonder if it's Luna, CM-101, or some peculiarity with my setup?

Ok, i'm trying to reproduce this.

So is this the correct procedure to reproduce this:

->start luna
->open the demo session (with the bach track)
->select cm303 as the player for the bach part
->activate the composition loop in the Transport panel
->play

In this case, you get a louder and louder note, correct?

Ah, ok, found the problem

The two last notes of measure 1 aren't cut on looping (because they end exactly on the loop position), and that's most probably why they get louder and louder as they get on to of eachother.

A second hanging loop notes issue occurs when, once looping, then changing the player for the part.

Will be fixed!

[muzycian]

after changing instruments several times,
i get a crackling sound output, using asio/m-audio.
when using gtg sputnik 2000, it crackles...

Will check out sputnik 2000!

Indeed i also sometimes get audio hickups with sputnik 2000.

Tests learned me that the hickup is within the vst plugin itself, out of LUNA's control.

I also noticed similar hickups with Protoplasm free.

Both synths are made with synth edit.

So is there a connection between synths-made-with-synthedit and the hickups?

Let's keep an eye/ear on it.

[bambooman]

i know what you mean by hickups,
but i had no hickups here, yet!
only the "crackling noise" while the synth still
plays smooth etc.
it sounds similar to a bad-radiostation

(btw. looping works fine here, i tried looping in any way)


"So is there a connection between synths-made-with-synthedit and the hickups?"

i say: NO !!!!!

i tested at least 30+ other SE synths,
who work flawless!

i think it depends on the synthesis-technique
of the individual synth!!!

don't know what it is,
but sputnik 2000 might use some rather
seldom/rare synth-parts,
maybe that is something luna can't handle, yet?!

** just a thought

[bambooman]

btw. does luna already come with a cpu-meter?!
is it hiding in some place, or not existing, yet?

[muzycian]

don't know what it is,
but sputnik 2000 might use some rather
seldom/rare synth-parts,
maybe that is something luna can't handle, yet?!

The inner working of a vst plug is invisible for LUNA.

After a little extra test, i indeed suspect sputnik of generating the crackling in certain conditions...

[muzycian]

btw. does luna already come with a cpu-meter?!
is it hiding in some place, or not existing, yet?

That's the display below the Tempo in the Transport Panel

[bambooman]

sorry:

i just experienced a loop problem as well,
while choosing tiny parts of the provided
demo-midi it works fine,
while looping the whole track,
1x note keeps hanging...

[fycfung]

Hi Jo,
I have a couple of issues concerning the time bar in the sequence editor.

1. When using CM-101, if I set the first measure as the loop and turn on looping, then the first note hangs. It gets louder and louder with each loop. Ironically, this is the same problem I had with ACID Music Studio. I don't think it happens with all VSTi's but since you're bundling with CM-101, it it probably important to figure out. I wonder if it's Luna, CM-101, or some peculiarity with my setup?

Ok, i'm trying to reproduce this.

So is this the correct procedure to reproduce this:

->start luna
->open the demo session (with the bach track)
->select cm303 as the player for the bach part
->activate the composition loop in the Transport panel
->play

In this case, you get a louder and louder note, correct?

2. I did mention this before but still find it critical: right now it is rather difficult to set up a loop starting at the beginning of a part, in the time bar, in the sequence editor. The reasons are
a. the "start flag" absorbs all the clicks where it is at, so I have to move it out of the way.
b. the close button comes right to the edge of where the time bar starts. It takes a lot of dexterity to start a loop there without closing the window.

I have three suggestions:
a. make the close button a little smaller and/or put a blank space before the time bar
b. make the start flag half-height so you can move the position marker to the start of the start flag
c. allow the loop marker to be created backwards by dragging as well as forwards.

I like the suggestion of half-height flags.

What about this: just clicking the locator flag puts the position at the flag position.

3. I had a problem once with the position marker vanishing and refusing to redraw in the sequence editor but I haven't been able to reproduce it yet.

Maybe the part had ended?

Thanks a lot for finding the problem! I really appreciate it!
Three things:

1. What is the start/locator flag for exactly? Is it so that you can have a part that's all written out, but only some of it plays?

2. I suppose you could have the position marker go right to the flag position every time you click on it. As long as there's a way to actually put the position marker at the beginning of the sequence without any fuss.

3. You didn't comment on the position/size of the close button. Maybe I'm just being too picky/noisy about this, but I find it very frustrating that it comes right up to the edge where I need to click to get the loop started. It seems normal that people will, very frequently, want to create a loop that starts at the beginning of a part, and I think it should definitely be easy to do so, with no tricky pitfalls, and I think that having the close button right there is definitely a tricky pitfall, because one teensy twitch the wrong way and boom, you're out of the sequence editor entirely. It seems like it would be a small but very high payoff change to shrink the close button (either symmetrically from the ends, or just by push it over from the right a bit) so that you can click in that region with no fear of closing the whole window.

No one else has commented on this; does no one else find this a big deal? I find it almost a showstopper from a usability perspective.

Thanks again!

[muzycian]

Thanks a lot for finding the problem! I really appreciate it!
Three things:

1. What is the start/locator flag for exactly? Is it so that you can have a part that's all written out, but only some of it plays?

Yes

3. You didn't comment on the position/size of the close button. Maybe I'm just being too picky/noisy about this, but I find it very frustrating that it comes right up to the edge where I need to click to get the loop started...

So what about this: s simple click on a locator flag puts the play position at the flag position.

That way you have the full start flag rectangle for just putting the position at the start of the loop.

Would that be ok for you?

[fycfung]

So what about this: s simple click on a locator flag puts the play position at the flag position.

That way you have the full start flag rectangle for just putting the position at the start of the loop.

Would that be ok for you?

I'd say that's sort of OK, as long as the flag is half-height, and clicking above the flag allows you to put the position marker somewhere in the middle of the rectangle. But let me say why I think shrinking the close button or putting a little decorative barrier in between is still better.

If you implement the fix above, then, playing the role of the impatient newbie, if I open up the software the first time, then I start clicking around on the time bar. I figure out that "clicking on the time bar puts the position marker where I clicked".

But, then I discover a couple of exceptions: "clicking on the time bar puts the position marker where I clicked, unless I want to go to the start of the loop, in which case half the time I exit the window", and then

"clicking on the time bar puts the position marker where I clicked, unless
1. I want to go to the start of the loop, in which case half the time I exit the window, and
2. if I click in the start flag, I go to the start of the start flag"

It seems to me like, from a simplicity of use viewpoint, it makes more sense to support the simplest rule for the operation of the time bar, by just letting the position marker be set by click position, and removing this pitfall.

Maybe there's some reason (aesthetic or implementational?) that the close button must come up to the edge, in which case I'll just have to let the matter drop, but it seems like a very low-cost, high-payoff fix to move/shrink it a bit.