The future of DC
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- KVRer
- 10 posts since 13 May, 2008 from PORTO, PORTUGAL
Come on people, now is the time to do it!
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- KVRian
- 677 posts since 19 Jul, 2005 from Paris
Hi,
So, I don't really understand if Tuz or Ben want some help by us or kvr users ?
I can make some publicity on the french forums and create links.
I don't know what I can do for Tuz and Ben, sure my english is too bad for help them to comunicate about the DC.
*************
I thinking about prizes : we can create an account for each plugin and the kvr users can donate for each dev.
A master prize can also exist.
I imagine a permanent DC, you create a plugin available only on KVR for one year or six months and your users must use the kvr link to download your plugin.
To avoid a big number of permanent entries, your plugin must have a minimum of votes to stay on the KVR server.
That's can really help some devs who have not web site.
So these ideas are just to talk about the DC, the actual form of the DC is good. In fact I believe than the most important for an unknown dev, it's the kvr buzz about his plugin.
Xavier
So, I don't really understand if Tuz or Ben want some help by us or kvr users ?
I can make some publicity on the french forums and create links.
I don't know what I can do for Tuz and Ben, sure my english is too bad for help them to comunicate about the DC.
*************
I thinking about prizes : we can create an account for each plugin and the kvr users can donate for each dev.
A master prize can also exist.
I imagine a permanent DC, you create a plugin available only on KVR for one year or six months and your users must use the kvr link to download your plugin.
To avoid a big number of permanent entries, your plugin must have a minimum of votes to stay on the KVR server.
That's can really help some devs who have not web site.
So these ideas are just to talk about the DC, the actual form of the DC is good. In fact I believe than the most important for an unknown dev, it's the kvr buzz about his plugin.
Xavier
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- KVRer
- 10 posts since 13 May, 2008 from PORTO, PORTUGAL
> I imagine a permanent DC...
I think the current DC format has been good.
Many things work better in a pulsed way. A yearly competition sets the rythm for the development, testing, evaluation and prize phases.
> I thinking about prizes : we can create an account for
> each plugin and the kvr users can donate for each dev.
> A master prize can also exist.
For reasons specific to human nature it is easier to collect money for a competition prize than to ask for donations
The prize could be shared between the 5 or 10 best voted projects.
Having separate prizes for each platform would be give more incentive to people entering projects for Linux or Mac OS. Otherwise they have very little chance of winning.
That wouldn't change things much for big winners: anyone could make a superb multi-platform project and win on the three platforms.
Bottom line is:
We're almost in mid 2008, can someone with authority just review the rules and declare it started?
Joaquim
I think the current DC format has been good.
Many things work better in a pulsed way. A yearly competition sets the rythm for the development, testing, evaluation and prize phases.
> I thinking about prizes : we can create an account for
> each plugin and the kvr users can donate for each dev.
> A master prize can also exist.
For reasons specific to human nature it is easier to collect money for a competition prize than to ask for donations
The prize could be shared between the 5 or 10 best voted projects.
Having separate prizes for each platform would be give more incentive to people entering projects for Linux or Mac OS. Otherwise they have very little chance of winning.
That wouldn't change things much for big winners: anyone could make a superb multi-platform project and win on the three platforms.
Bottom line is:
We're almost in mid 2008, can someone with authority just review the rules and declare it started?
Joaquim
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- KVRist
- 127 posts since 10 Jan, 2003 from Japan
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- KVRAF
- 4619 posts since 6 Jan, 2003
xoxos won 1st place for The Sounds of Nature. You can see the full results here: http://www.kvraudio.com/developer_challenge_2007.phpNickSonic wrote:Speaking of prizes, who won what last time?
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- KVRist
- 127 posts since 10 Jan, 2003 from Japan
Oh, I know. I was talking about the prizes distribution, like software etc...ugo wrote:xoxos won 1st place for The Sounds of Nature. You can see the full results here: http://www.kvraudio.com/developer_challenge_2007.phpNickSonic wrote:Speaking of prizes, who won what last time?
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- KVRAF
- 4619 posts since 6 Jan, 2003
The money was distributed shortly after the winners were announced and was split among the top three, with 1st getting the largest cut and 3rd getting the smallest.NickSonic wrote:Oh, I know. I was talking about the prizes distribution, like software etc...
To my knowledge, the non-cash prizes were never distributed.
The distribution was to have been organized and monitored by Tolga and in some cases (if not many) the recipients were to be chosen by random draw. (Also to be performed by Tolga.) Because of this, those of us who offered to donate prizes were told to wait and not send out anything until we received official instructions.
Unfortunately Tolga's life became extremely hectic and he was not able to take on the task of sorting out the distribution. Back in February I offered to assist in the process (though I don't know if I could have been eligible since I was a contender) but he said he had help lined up already. Last I heard, the distribution was still pending but I don't know what the current status is beyond that.
Of course if I am wrong and the distribution has actually already taken place, then my apologies to Tolga and someone please let me know who won the plugins I am offering so I can send them out.
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- KVRian
- 677 posts since 19 Jul, 2005 from Paris
Hi,
When you said:
it's true and false...
A lot freeware devs have a busy life.
I work the day and I code the night.
And about the prize, I think it will be secondary!
If I add the total of days of work on my Kx-Modulad plugin, 2000$ is too small to pay my work, that's why it's stupid to talk about the prize.
The DC time is good if you do something quickly (less than 3 months) with SE or SM.
It's possible to create an original plugin quickly but that's strongly limit the possibilities.
A good betatesting time is 3 months, not just some weeks.
And if you propose a buggy plugin you lose a lot votes!
AND HOW MANY USERS HAVE REALLY TAKE THEIR TIME TO TRY ALL ENTRIES!
What we do if the total of the entries of the next DC is more than 50...
That's why I imagine a permanent DC, to help the devs who work on a long time project, who need several months to create their plugin.
You will say, this guy is too serious.
Yes I am when I work on my code, the fun is after when I play on my plugin.
So, I think this is the time to talk about the DC because we don't know if the DC08 will exist but I repeat again the actual form is good but we can talk about.
Xavier
We are not machines. We are humans with a busy life.Unfortunately Tolga's life became extremely hectic and he was not able to take on the task of sorting out the distribution.
When you said:
Many things work better in a pulsed way. A yearly competition sets the rythm for the development, testing, evaluation and prize phases.
it's true and false...
A lot freeware devs have a busy life.
I work the day and I code the night.
And about the prize, I think it will be secondary!
If I add the total of days of work on my Kx-Modulad plugin, 2000$ is too small to pay my work, that's why it's stupid to talk about the prize.
The DC time is good if you do something quickly (less than 3 months) with SE or SM.
It's possible to create an original plugin quickly but that's strongly limit the possibilities.
A good betatesting time is 3 months, not just some weeks.
And if you propose a buggy plugin you lose a lot votes!
AND HOW MANY USERS HAVE REALLY TAKE THEIR TIME TO TRY ALL ENTRIES!
What we do if the total of the entries of the next DC is more than 50...
That's why I imagine a permanent DC, to help the devs who work on a long time project, who need several months to create their plugin.
You will say, this guy is too serious.
Yes I am when I work on my code, the fun is after when I play on my plugin.
So, I think this is the time to talk about the DC because we don't know if the DC08 will exist but I repeat again the actual form is good but we can talk about.
Xavier
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- KVRAF
- 4619 posts since 6 Jan, 2003
Of course, and I did not mean to imply otherwise. I certainly understand Tolga's time limitations. I was terribly short on time for most of last year and into this year. So much so that I couldn't even offer to help until February, even though I wanted to offer sooner. It's only been in the last few months I finally got a real break again.kx77free wrote:We are not machines. We are humans with a busy life.Unfortunately Tolga's life became extremely hectic and he was not able to take on the task of sorting out the distribution.
So everything I said above was not to point the proverbial finger at Tolga but rather only to explain the situation to someone who asked who got what prizes, since I figured had I only said "they have not been distributed yet" the next logical follow-up question would have been "why not?" So I chose to answer both at once.
IMHO, the cash prize, and even the contest end of things as a whole, are simply a bonus. I feel that the DC is not about receiving compensation for our efforts, but instead it's about devs working to give the world a whole bunch of freeware on the same day.If I add the total of days of work on my Kx-Modulad plugin, 2000$ is too small to pay my work, that's why it's stupid to talk about the prize.
Even SE synths, if you are doing anything complex, usually need several months worth of testing. But I am sure many devs started work on their entry for the DC well in advance, rather than at the last minute.The DC time is good if you do something quickly (less than 3 months) with SE or SM.
It's possible to create an original plugin quickly but that's strongly limit the possibilities.
A good betatesting time is 3 months, not just some weeks.
And if you propose a buggy plugin you lose a lot votes!
I may be forgetting something, but I do not remember any rule last year that said you had to being your development on a certain date, only that you had to be finished by a specific date. So for any large projects, I think you are allowed to start as far in advance as you wish to.That's why I imagine a permanent DC, to help the devs who work on a long time project, who need several months to create their plugin.
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- KVRian
- 677 posts since 19 Jul, 2005 from Paris
Hi,
I worked on my oscillator one year before the DC...(I did not know the existence of the DC at this time) but for a big project it's possible than the DC date entry is too short and it's not easy to wait one year to provide a plugin (stable release with low cpu use, etc...)because we cannot diffuse anything before the start of the DC.
Xavier
In fact I wanted say that, bonus or secondary is the same thing, it's not important.IMHO, the cash prize, and even the contest end of things as a whole, are simply a bonus. I feel that the DC is not about receiving compensation for our efforts, but instead it's about devs working to give the world a whole bunch of freeware on the same day.
You are right!Even SE synths, if you are doing anything complex, usually need several months worth of testing. But I am sure many devs started work on their entry for the DC well in advance, rather than at the last minute.
I worked on my oscillator one year before the DC...(I did not know the existence of the DC at this time) but for a big project it's possible than the DC date entry is too short and it's not easy to wait one year to provide a plugin (stable release with low cpu use, etc...)because we cannot diffuse anything before the start of the DC.
Xavier
Last edited by kx77free on Thu May 22, 2008 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRian
- 677 posts since 19 Jul, 2005 from Paris
Hi,
The english language is a fat low pass filter for me...
I must write shortly my ideas.
1- It's clear, the prizes are a way to get a focus of the freeware development, it's not the finality of the DC, I hope.
But the managment of them by Tuz or Ben spending their time and the com can be too centered about this finality.
2- One prize for each category can be good but imagine one medail for all type of sport on the JO.
The principal difficulty of the DC is the number of the entries.
Eg:
if you scearch a good free FX, you will try in priority the Fx and you can forgot the synthes etc...
Or to find where is the new ideas inside a plugin, you must try a plugin more than five minutes.
41*(5 min + 5 min for download + 5 min to install)=615 min = 10 Hours!
10 hours and more is not a web timing!
If you want win the DC, you must format your plugin for these parameters!
It's exatly the same thing than if you provide a payware and you want money, you must do a work for the majority of the users.
This ideas are very global, of course, I don't really think that...
So, to solve these problems, in the DC page, the plugins should be classified by category, not with the name.
And the description text should be rewrite all time by the dev if he wants correct the text.
Or if an user cannot try some pugins or categories, his vote cannot have the same value than if he tries all.
His vote must have a proportionnal value by his downloaded files.
eg: you try only 10 plugs, your vote = 10/41 = -/+ 0.25
Xavier
The english language is a fat low pass filter for me...
I must write shortly my ideas.
1- It's clear, the prizes are a way to get a focus of the freeware development, it's not the finality of the DC, I hope.
But the managment of them by Tuz or Ben spending their time and the com can be too centered about this finality.
2- One prize for each category can be good but imagine one medail for all type of sport on the JO.
The principal difficulty of the DC is the number of the entries.
Eg:
if you scearch a good free FX, you will try in priority the Fx and you can forgot the synthes etc...
Or to find where is the new ideas inside a plugin, you must try a plugin more than five minutes.
41*(5 min + 5 min for download + 5 min to install)=615 min = 10 Hours!
10 hours and more is not a web timing!
If you want win the DC, you must format your plugin for these parameters!
It's exatly the same thing than if you provide a payware and you want money, you must do a work for the majority of the users.
This ideas are very global, of course, I don't really think that...
So, to solve these problems, in the DC page, the plugins should be classified by category, not with the name.
And the description text should be rewrite all time by the dev if he wants correct the text.
Or if an user cannot try some pugins or categories, his vote cannot have the same value than if he tries all.
His vote must have a proportionnal value by his downloaded files.
eg: you try only 10 plugs, your vote = 10/41 = -/+ 0.25
Xavier
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- KVRAF
- 4619 posts since 6 Jan, 2003
I don't know how you'll be able to tell who tried what plug though, or at least not in a way that you'll be able to assign a value to the strength of their vote. You could have a system in place that could tell if someone downloaded a file, but I don't know how you'll know if they used it, or for how long, without having to add something intrusive on their computers (which would turn people away.)
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- KVRian
- 1399 posts since 29 Feb, 2004
----I think maybe KX meant that the devs should be able to update/change their descriptions and upload updates and new patches themselves, as well as if the organizer(s) of the DC would take a an extra hour when setting the download page up to categorize the entries according to what they do, synths/effects/midi/standalone/etc. Good idea really, if there was a master list organized by category, with a thumbnail and link to a separate page where the dev could log-in and update and change things themselves. It would save the organizer(s) quite a bit of time in the end, and allow the devs a bit faster/easier/more control over how their entry was being presented.
Jeff
Jeff
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- KVRAF
- 4619 posts since 6 Jan, 2003
Yes, I agree with that part of the Xavier's suggestion. I forgot to mention that. Allowing the devs to update their own stuff would save time for the organizers and probably be less frustrating for the devs. The process would of course still need to be monitored, but a self-serve update system would probably be helpful.
The part I was responding to was the end of Xavier's post where suggested the concept of adding less value to the votes made by people who try fewer entries.
The part I was responding to was the end of Xavier's post where suggested the concept of adding less value to the votes made by people who try fewer entries.
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- KVRian
- 894 posts since 9 Aug, 2004 from Rome, Italy
Sorry guys, watching you fairly discussing about fine details BUT
I don't see any sign of life from the organizers themselves,
at this time last year the games were already started!
I'm Just hoping they want to make a winter edition....
Andrea
I don't see any sign of life from the organizers themselves,
at this time last year the games were already started!
I'm Just hoping they want to make a winter edition....
Andrea
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