Acid-style Looping revisited

[Lunch Money]

A recent thread reminded me that I still had a copy of a Free Plasma Express 2003 program (by Cakewalk) that came with a Computer Music magazine.

I actually used to use this program a bit before Tracktion, but that was so long ago (and before I knew music forums existed!) that I had forgotten that Plasma includes support for Acid loops.

Well, I have 2 things to say about that--

1. I may just keep this installed just for beats. I have had limited success with beatslicers inside T to accomplish the same thing, but none of them are THIS easy.

2. I really really really want this kind of looping inside Tracktion. I don't even care that much about the dragging/painting way of doing things-- it's just the ability to change tempo and auto-fit loops into measures (some loops are off by a few milliseconds) that I would like.



Greg

[braj]

It really is a big deal these days. Especially for guitarists who don't want to try and think like drummers, or play with a drum machine track.

I had a short affair with Guitar Tracks Pro that made me decide loops were something I really wanted in a DAW. It's only problem was no Midi. And Sonar is too much 'sequencer' for me. I think Tracktion will really 'come of age' when this feature is added. It will be a complete solution that all musicians could live with.

The thing about Tracktion that I found beautiful: you don't need to be an engineer to use it. But once you start adding beat slicers you take away from the elegant simplicity that makes T so cool.

[RCcola]

Yep, I hope Tracktion will grow into the loop thing really soon.

Does anybody here know- is it Logic that has the cool loop browser that auto transposes and auto timeshifts loops while you're browsing...as in even before you import any of them? If so, then Garage Band probably does as well. I'm hoping Jules will come up with some brilliant way to work that into the Tracktion GUI. Without compromising the simplicity you mention, braj.

It's no big thang to go into the Finder (or Explorer) and drag them in...and then pitch them if it doesn't do what you want. But how cool would it be to just let a portion of your song loop while you audition loops, each of them modified on the fly so they gel with your key and tempo. I was trying to 'think like Jules' one day, and come up with the best way to work browsing and importing into Tracktion's workflow. Would you drag inside a blank track to designate how long you want a loop, then click an Import Loop button, and the track lane itself would temporarily become a browser where you audition...no that sucks. Maybe just a little 'I' button up near the Racks button..you click it and the information or properties window becomes a browser (where you can audition)? Or, in keeping with the 'drag a filter' process which is one of the things that makes Tracktion Tracktion...what if you drag the I button onto a track, and then the properties pane displays the loop directory...or a window pops up like the filter window does...What does everybody think? Have a better idea? Let's help the poor boy out; he oughta be tuckered out after coding like a madman for...has it been a year?

[M'Snah]

...

[bugs]

If you into creating with loops, Acid Pro 5 is really quite good. Everything else is really just an attempt to imitate Acid's functionality. It is relatively inexpensive consider the number of loops and the quality effects that come with it. Plus there is ReWire, MIDI, VST support, etc.

An aside: My great hope for Sony is that they also implement the Oxfords plugs for their own software, not just PoCo and Pro Tools. Soundforge with the Oxford Plugs would be one killer editing/mastering set-up.

[braj]

Apple Loops ala Logic/Garageband are really cool in a way, the really cool thing about some is they are both midi and AIFF, so you can use them as an audio file or as a synth that can be re-voiced. I'm not sure if anyone's done that with WAVs yet. I tried Acid and like Apple Loops better personally, though ReCycle files have their advantages too.

What would be really cool is if one host was able to incorporate all these technologies. Logic is closer to doing that than anything right now, I guess (since Apple Loops are exclusively theirs).

Any loop libraries I'm likely to buy in the near future will probably be Apple Loops. They work pretty well in Live as well (though I don;t believe it recognizes their transient markers, it has to make it's own on the fly.

HansM, beyond timestretch/beatmapping, Tracktion is an excellent host and about ready to move up in the game with T2. I definitely think it represents future trends as opposed to traditional 'hardware emulation' type DAWs that make things harder than they need to be. Just my opinion of course.

[bugs]

What is this 'Tracktion' thing that so manypeople are talking about? In most of the threads here I read things that it doesn't do, e.g. loops, patterns, mixer, etc... but still it's the way to go?

--HansM

Tracktion 2 = the new "giant killer" sequencer.
http://www.mackie.com/products/tracktion/index.html

Extremely easy and logical to use. I have some considerable experience with other sequencers (SX, Sonar, FL Studio, Acid, Reason, Max/MSP and Live!) and this is by far the easiest to learn. I took me exactly one day. If you know nothing, it might take a week. Plus it is going to be very inexpensive. Not every job demands "a big gun" like SX3 or Logic. It's a great second sequencer and a wonderful entry level sequencer that does not compromise on quality.

I'm a big fan of using multiple sequencers, each for a specific purpose. The first one is the most difficult to learn--like languages. After a few years of study (and some expense), I am quite comfortable working in SX, Acid, FL Studio, Tracktion, Reason, Sibelius, et al. Each has a few areas where it excels--e.g. nothing works for pattern generation like FL Studio, nothing work as well as Acid for loops generated material (although SX3 has caught-up quite a bit), for notation based sequencing there is nothing like Sibelius and nothing is as fast as Tracktion. No one piece of sequencing software is going to do the whole trick. A very nice integration is Tracktion with Reason and FL Studio XXL as ReWire slaves. Throw in Kontakt, Reaktor and Atmosphere as primary instruments and some highend effects processors and you're in computer music heaven. I use basically this system, but with Cubase at the top of the hierachy--everything funnels into it, with WaveLab as an editor.

[Breakpete]

I'm fairly confident some kind of loop technology will make it into a future version of Tracktion. It is something the current userbase requests quite often, and implementing it will probably ensure that quite a few users stay on the Tracktion path.

Holding on to your current market share is becoming increasingly important in a market that is steadily approaching the saturation point.

Looping capabilities has been a great selling point for other sequencers too (I believe Cakewalk marketed this aspect of Sonar quite heavily).

[Lunch Money]

Bugs, HansM was just being fecetious.

FWIW, there's not much point talking about what Tracktion CAN do unless we want to blow smoke up each other's asses all day. when people ask for sequencer recommendations, THAT's when we turn around and list all the things it CAN do.

Otherwise, most of us are just more interested in getting it to be the best possible sequencer it can be, which means listing a few things we'd like to have.

Greg

[rockstar_not]

Greg,

Join my thread at the official Mackie forum, where it seems Beno and Jules hang out more often.

http://forums.mackie.com/scripts/forum/ ... 7&t=000245

-Scott

[jtxx000]

If you into creating with loops, Acid Pro 5 is really quite good. Everything else is really just an attempt to imitate Acid's functionality. It is relatively inexpensive consider the number of loops and the quality effects that come with it. Plus there is ReWire, MIDI, VST support, etc.

An aside: My great hope for Sony is that they also implement the Oxfords plugs for their own software, not just PoCo and Pro Tools. Soundforge with the Oxford Plugs would be one killer editing/mastering set-up.

eh... i've heard that Acid 5 installs some database server on your computer i have version 4 right now but unless you're using VSTis and stuff then version 3 would probably be fine if you can pick it up off ebay...

[rockstar_not]

I actually use Acid 2.0 for loop stretching, but I'm getting used to beat slicing in Tracktion - It would be really nice if you could group a bunch of clips in T into a single entity and then loop that grouped entity x number of times. Now, you have to i/o marker the group of loops, render them to .wav and then import as a new clip back into the project. If you didn't have to do this step, I might just never complain about the crappy time stretch algorithm in T again.

-Scott

[rockstar_not]

My view of the forum now defaults to this little wimpy Quick Reply window. Is there any way to get back the more detailed reply window?

[braj]

You can always 'reply with quote' then delete the quote. Then you canget all the font stuff and more.

[braj]

D'oh, or you can just hit 'reply' right where it's always been (I feel so foolish )