Groove Clips in Sonar4

[soulata]

Hi

Demoing Sonar 4 here (but waiting for t2 first of course).

The Groove-Clips thing is awesome. Wish T2 could do that.

Don't say use MicroDicer for that (I have it), it's just so easy painting loops there not worrying about it.

ok. enough.

k

[soulata]

On the bright side, T1 was (is) the only programm my drummer could get his head around.

k

[headquest]

Groove clips in Sonar are indeed Awesome, as you say. When I tried the demo I was nearly sold on Sonar because of the groove clips alone, although the Sonitus fx suite nearly did it for me too!

When Sonar 4 was announced last autumn I nearly jumped onto it and left Tracktion for good, because it seemed so good. It was Christianmusicmaker who recommended I wait for T2... which I've patiently done now for several more months! (if I'd known the timescale I may not have done).

Add to that, T2 has no decent timestretch/looping improvements which is a huge disappointment to, it seems, MANY tracktioneers.

I use Tracktion in education and certainly hoped for better looping in the Sonar style, as this is a great way to get started for beginners. In the meantime, Cubase SX3 has come out - with simplar timestretching/looping excellence. And Logic 7 supports Apple Loops, which are basically Acid under new management.

But... and its a big BUT... I don't think that Sonar, or any of these others, can touch Tracktion when it comes to ease of use, and for me that is one of things that has kept me on the Tracktion straight-and-narrow up until now.

Sonar has - to my ears - great sound uality and some excellent features, and I'm sure you won't be disappointed if you go down that route. But definitely wait for Tracktion 2, which should be out sometime this month.

[Cabinfever]

the 'ease of use' thing pretty much vanishes once you get to know your way around an app. all apps have their shortcuts and tricks. i put aside a week to step through the basics of sonar, but found myself humming along quite nicely after a day (but sure, lots still to learn!)

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[headquest]

the 'ease of use' thing pretty much vanishes once you get to know your way around an app. all apps have their shortcuts and tricks. i put aside a week to step through the basics of sonar, but found myself humming along quite nicely after a day (but sure, lots still to learn!)

Hi there!

Have you used both Tracktion and Sonar, and if so how would you compare them?

Regarding ease of use, I didn't just mean the initial learning curve, but how fast and intuitive it is in use once you are regularly on the job?

I switched to Tracktion from Cubase SX1 which was a pita even after using - and teaching! - it for some time. Tracktion has much better ergonomics. I wondered where Sonar fits into this?

One other point to soulata: Sonar is reputed to have very good customer support, and the Cakewalk user forum certainly seems like a friendly and positive place to be . If you need looping/timestretch tools that are absent from T2, then it's worth knowing that most Sonar users seem to be very happy with their chosen product. Steinberg gave poor support if I'm honest, and the happiness of tracktioneers "back in the day" was one of several deciding factors for me because it gives a good indication.

[headquest]

The problem with Sonar's groove clips are if you decide to stretch more than even 5%, especiall slowdown. the artifacts are terrible. What I don't understand, is that Project 5 uses groove clips as well and it's REALTIME time stretching engine is INCREDIBLE quality! what gives?

Hi ttoz! Good to see you - how's it going with your new Reason-only workflow?

I thought that Sonar's groove clips were fine when I demoed them, and I stretched them quite badly! (certainly more than 50%).

I think that Acid and Audition both have equally good if not better timestretching though, and I'm presently demoing FL5 (purely for research, you understand ) which also has outstanding timestretching imho. Surprised?

[soulata]

I'll wait for T2, that's for sure, but I'm saving for S4 Studio Edition just in case.

I've got a big project in two weeks (I'll have quite some time to do my part though) and want to do it as good as I can.

k

[Gwydi]

The problem with Sonar's groove clips are if you decide to stretch more than even 5%, especiall slowdown. the artifacts are terrible. What I don't understand, is that Project 5 uses groove clips as well and it's REALTIME time stretching engine is INCREDIBLE quality! what gives?

When stretching clips in Sonar it's really important to set the slice size small - it defaults to 1/8 but at the very least it should be set to 1/16. Changing that removes pretty much all artifacts.

I actually upgraded to S4P a few weeks ago because I really needed folder tracks and project pitch for something I'm doing. Now I'm working with Sonar again I wonder why I was so down on it before, I'm actually finding that my workflow is as fast as Tracktion. Maybe it has more to do with me actually being inspired

G.

[Dimwit]

Well one thing is how much does Sonar 4 cost?
It's at least twice as expensive right?

I wouldn't get down on Tracktion for not having the features
of much more expensive apps.

I guess it all depends on how you create.
Me, I could care less about timestreching capability
Isn't that for dropping pre-recorded audio bits and having them fit the tempo and key of your tune?
How does Tracktion's timestretching fall short?
I'm curious to know.

I'd rather just make all the musical elements of my tune from scratch.
So for me, Tracktion provides more than I need.

[AndrewSimon]

Before I found Tracktion I was demoing all the DAWs and Sonar was my number one choice.
I almost purchased it but then I bumped into Tracktion.
I don't know what is it about Tracktion but it was love at first sight.
It had everything I needed and It was controllable immediately, everything made sense.
It was as if it was written specially for me.
So the interface simply disappeared and I didn't needed to think about it, just use it and make music

But if I had to choose a different DAW it would be Sonar.

[Cabinfever]

i have bought and used many hosts, always on the lookout for a good price. recently my workflow has been creating audio chunks iun fl and arrange in orion.

that worked ok, but i don't like orion's mixer or eq, and the instruments aren't as good as stuff i'd bought so weren't a big plus.

i also demoed traktion, but just didn't 'get it'. i was also scared off by bug reports - especially the 'first note midi bug'. maybe that's ancient history now.

in the end i really think you get what you pay for.

i coughed up for sonar pe recently and am extremely happy. it's a 'here-now' product, not a bunch of promises and hopes.

[braj]

I hate how you need to have so many tracks in Sonar, you have to manage so much stuff. It just seems bloated and not instantly clear what track is routed to what etc. Tracktion is very clear in this regard. (so is Live and Logic)

That's the one thing that turned me off to Sonar. I just hated it.

[soulata]

Isn't that for dropping pre-recorded audio bits and having them fit the tempo and key of your tune?

yes, but it works for the recorded tracks as well, like finding a good loop and moving it around, as well as fixing some mistakes.

k

[Dimwit]

Isn't that for dropping pre-recorded audio bits and having them fit the tempo and key of your tune?

yes, but it works for the recorded tracks as well, like finding a good loop and moving it around, as well as fixing some mistakes.

k

I can see how that would be handy.
So how is Trackion lacking in this function?