The biggest shame for this excellent sequencer is bug or whatever that causes crashes of Tracktion with BFD VSTi.
In same time BFD works flawless in Samplitude and Cubase, so no problems with BFD itself.
As it is pretty standard drum module T2 MUST provide its flawlee operation.
I would suggest to wait any time longer and release product that will provide satisfaction instead of frustration.
In other respects I like T1 very much.
Gyang
Mackie PLEASE, don't release T2, if BFD won't work flawless!
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- KVRAF
- 1600 posts since 1 Apr, 2003 from Seattle, WA
This is the first time I've heard this reported. Please give me some more information so I can try and reproduce the problem and we can get it fixed. Tell me what exactly goes wrong. What I need to do to reproduce it. And the details of your system.
Thanks,
Ben
Thanks,
Ben
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 76 posts since 7 Mar, 2005 from Moscow
I reported same last year and many other members confirmed their problems with BFD in Tracktion. I noticed crashes, as well as, minor problems (I can live with it) with automation.This is the first time I've heard this reported.
It happened on various PCs and has nothing with PC configuration (everything else works fine and T2 alone works fine, too).
On some parts of song for reason that is hard to understand Tracktion just stops (freeze) or crashes, so it is necessary to re-start it.
It happened with 3 different sound cards (RME, Lynx and ECHO) on 3 various PCs.
I think that some incompatiblity between BFD and Tracktion can be rooted on both sides, but the point is that I do not have problems with BFD in other hosts.
Also, it would be interesting to hear from mebers that who eventually cured the problem in some way (which version of BFD and Tracktion they use).
Frankly speaking, after I encountered the problem I almost completly stop to use Tracktion, before new major version is released.
Good luck.
Gyang
Don't forget that your music might eventually outlive you.
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- KVRist
- 426 posts since 14 Apr, 2003 from Switzerland
I am using BFD now for several months in Tracktion in all kinds of projects and never had any issue at all - none that had anything to do with Tracktion at least. In fact, I had some trouble with it in Cubase, where it would not respond to mouse clicking after having closed the plug-in window once, although FXpansion resolved those issues later on.
You don't happen to use a Matrox Graphics card, do you? I used to have one of those myself, and all I can say is that when I finally got myself a more up-to-date graphics card (it's still got passive cooling) it improved my BFD experience drastically - I now can use all build-in GUI-animations without a hiccup of my CPU.
Cheers, Pädy
You don't happen to use a Matrox Graphics card, do you? I used to have one of those myself, and all I can say is that when I finally got myself a more up-to-date graphics card (it's still got passive cooling) it improved my BFD experience drastically - I now can use all build-in GUI-animations without a hiccup of my CPU.
Cheers, Pädy
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- KVRAF
- 4644 posts since 28 Nov, 2002 from Chicago
Pädy, could this simply be a real-time priority mode thing?
Someone shot the food. Remember: don't shoot food!
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- KVRAF
- 1600 posts since 1 Apr, 2003 from Seattle, WA
Yeah, Gyang, as valley said. The first place to start would be disable Realtime priority and enable asio direct mode and see if things continue. Especially if Pady's having good luck there must be something else going on there. I'll try to get a copy to check it out.
Ben
Ben
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- KVRist
- 426 posts since 14 Apr, 2003 from Switzerland
It could be a simple RTP mode thing, although in a quick test I just did, it all worked flawlessly. As I said, I have used BFD in various projects with all kinds of other plug-ins involved and never ever had anything buggy going on in regard to Tracktion - so, as far as I'm concerned there's not much point in trying to make it go wrong somehow by testing all sorts of set-ups. The best bet I can come up with is what I already said: Graphics. BFD seems to be quite demanding graphicswise, so you definitely want a newer model graphics card with enough RAM on it.
Cheers, Pädy
Cheers, Pädy
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 76 posts since 7 Mar, 2005 from Moscow
I am happy to hear that. Last time I did something in Tracktion was around 7 months ago (BFD version was one of earlier, too). It is possible that FXpansion changed something in newer versions (I don't know if Tracktion had any newer version than that of June 2004 I used).red5 wrote:FYI: I have BFD and it works fine in Tracktion. Any issues have been BFD issues - so far.
In relation to PC and graphic card. Components are carefully chosen with new HQ graphic card, but I could accept this as reason, if other 2 (different) cards wouldn't replicate the problem.
As matter of fact, I did not say that Tracktion-BFD crash as a rule and always according to particluar conditions. On the contrary, it happened without apparent reason and disapeared on next session without explanation, too.
I would suggest to developers to try BFD as VSTi and make several heavy arrangements with using grooves and various tweaking in BFD.
Also, all three output modes (Stereo, Groups and All Outs) to be used in testing.
In All Out mode I can't tweak BFD's each individual output in Tracktion (means I did not find way how to do it via racks or whatever).
For example, in Samplitude, when I activate BFD's All Outs, I imediately get 8 stereo channels and can tweak drum set extensively.
In Tracktion, I always get only 2 channels stereo pair.
So, BFD as my priority drums sound source works in Tracktion in somehow limited way.
If all above is only due to earlier versions of both software, I'll re-view my position and update all.
But from earlier threads on this forum, I got firm impression that BFD and Tracktion do not live happily together.
Good luck
GYang
Don't forget that your music might eventually outlive you.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 76 posts since 7 Mar, 2005 from Moscow
IN ADDITION
Two earlier posts in VST Incompatibility Thread
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:57 pm
I use BFD in Tracktion under OS X 10.3.2 on a dual G5. To work around the problem the other poster mentioned, I've found BFD playback very smooth, but ONLY after BFD has already played each of the samples once. Since there are tons of samples for every drum, this can take some time to do completely. Either I just let BFD "warm up" for a while playing various grooves, or use my keyboard to tap out different velocity hits for each drum. The latter method is the way to go if you're having crashing problems when BFD overloads.
I've had some other problems, and hopefully Jules can check if Tracktion might be the culprit.
After entering MIDI notes via Tracktion's piano roll, sometimes odd notes just will NOT be recognized by BFD. It drives me crazy. I can't predict when a note will go missing like this, but it only happens with notes entered in manually in the piano roll. It doesn't happen with MIDI notes recorded in Tracktion and so far it hasn't happened with notes from MIDI files imported into Tracktion.
Also, it's a minor annoyance, but when the BFD VST interface first loads, all you get is a blank screen until you can click in all the right places to make it draw in pieces.
Also, when using BFD via Rewire, the BFD interface immediately dissapears when I have to click outside of it. The only way to get back to it is to minimize Tracktion and then click on Tracktions icon in the dock to get it back. I don't know if other Rewire applications have this problem because I don't run them.
I'm really hoping an update will come soon so we'll be able to route audio from one VST plug to a number of different tracks. For now, instead being able to use the BFD (ALL) VST plug, I have to use up to 17 instances of the Rewire plug. Rewire's inability to save settings and its nastiness when it crashes have caused me a lot of aggravation. I hope this feature is near the top of the list.
Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:01 am
I saw some replies related to BFD here.
Summary on it:
If PC has chosen components (to work almost perfect as it could be presently) and 2GB plus RAM, on the first moment seems that BFD as VSTi works in Tracktion quite well.
It was major discovery for me, enabling to drop couple of TC Powercore high-end plug ins that work indeed flawlesly and to have super fast, flexible drum arranger/editor under my hands.
But later, I found that some ghost notes emerged in track (not shown in editor, but you can hear it). Still I do not know how to get rid of that (BY THE WAY ANY ADVICE?)
Second, Tracktion seems to have some limit of complexness per track, means what worked fine in the beginning turned to be nightmare near to finish of the track (when you make lot of tweaking, adjustments etc.). Either unexpected crashes or repeated hangs on same position in song.
From that moment I checked all and verdict is clear, Tracktion is unstable with BFD. To such extent that no routine works can be done with that pair.
To say that BFD is incompatible with Tracktion is wrong. Simply it is not reliable and you can expect headache in serious work.
ADVICE TO JULES:
Many hosts are far from perfect with VSTi incl. Steinbergs.
Seems that BFD is fast evolving software that needs very good integration with host. If Tracktion succeed (maybe jointly with FXpansion) to resolve this amazing task, it will be killer combination anyway.
I know many people that would buy Tracktion only to use it as simpliest sequencer/editor/host with BFD only.
Also, sync issues SHOULD be better implemented.
Comment
I fully agree with second post and similar opinions have been reflected on this forum several times.
Gyang
Two earlier posts in VST Incompatibility Thread
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:57 pm
I use BFD in Tracktion under OS X 10.3.2 on a dual G5. To work around the problem the other poster mentioned, I've found BFD playback very smooth, but ONLY after BFD has already played each of the samples once. Since there are tons of samples for every drum, this can take some time to do completely. Either I just let BFD "warm up" for a while playing various grooves, or use my keyboard to tap out different velocity hits for each drum. The latter method is the way to go if you're having crashing problems when BFD overloads.
I've had some other problems, and hopefully Jules can check if Tracktion might be the culprit.
After entering MIDI notes via Tracktion's piano roll, sometimes odd notes just will NOT be recognized by BFD. It drives me crazy. I can't predict when a note will go missing like this, but it only happens with notes entered in manually in the piano roll. It doesn't happen with MIDI notes recorded in Tracktion and so far it hasn't happened with notes from MIDI files imported into Tracktion.
Also, it's a minor annoyance, but when the BFD VST interface first loads, all you get is a blank screen until you can click in all the right places to make it draw in pieces.
Also, when using BFD via Rewire, the BFD interface immediately dissapears when I have to click outside of it. The only way to get back to it is to minimize Tracktion and then click on Tracktions icon in the dock to get it back. I don't know if other Rewire applications have this problem because I don't run them.
I'm really hoping an update will come soon so we'll be able to route audio from one VST plug to a number of different tracks. For now, instead being able to use the BFD (ALL) VST plug, I have to use up to 17 instances of the Rewire plug. Rewire's inability to save settings and its nastiness when it crashes have caused me a lot of aggravation. I hope this feature is near the top of the list.
Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:01 am
I saw some replies related to BFD here.
Summary on it:
If PC has chosen components (to work almost perfect as it could be presently) and 2GB plus RAM, on the first moment seems that BFD as VSTi works in Tracktion quite well.
It was major discovery for me, enabling to drop couple of TC Powercore high-end plug ins that work indeed flawlesly and to have super fast, flexible drum arranger/editor under my hands.
But later, I found that some ghost notes emerged in track (not shown in editor, but you can hear it). Still I do not know how to get rid of that (BY THE WAY ANY ADVICE?)
Second, Tracktion seems to have some limit of complexness per track, means what worked fine in the beginning turned to be nightmare near to finish of the track (when you make lot of tweaking, adjustments etc.). Either unexpected crashes or repeated hangs on same position in song.
From that moment I checked all and verdict is clear, Tracktion is unstable with BFD. To such extent that no routine works can be done with that pair.
To say that BFD is incompatible with Tracktion is wrong. Simply it is not reliable and you can expect headache in serious work.
ADVICE TO JULES:
Many hosts are far from perfect with VSTi incl. Steinbergs.
Seems that BFD is fast evolving software that needs very good integration with host. If Tracktion succeed (maybe jointly with FXpansion) to resolve this amazing task, it will be killer combination anyway.
I know many people that would buy Tracktion only to use it as simpliest sequencer/editor/host with BFD only.
Also, sync issues SHOULD be better implemented.
Comment
I fully agree with second post and similar opinions have been reflected on this forum several times.
Gyang
Don't forget that your music might eventually outlive you.
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- KVRist
- 426 posts since 14 Apr, 2003 from Switzerland
You have to wrap it in a rack filter and then insert as many instances to as many tracks as you like. Then choose the desired output for each instance and voilà. Unfortunately, valley's guides are offline and I don't know of other guides for that matter in English. Mine are in German - here's the Multi-Out one:In All Out mode I can't tweak BFD's each individual output in Tracktion (means I did not find way how to do it via racks or whatever).
http://forum.pady.net/viewtopic.php?t=14
Maybe the pictures will help you anyway.
Yes, they do. When was the last time you actually checked this out? The latest Tracktion build is from July 2004 ( 1.6.0.1 ) and the current BFD build is from yesterday ( 1.0.10.18 ).But from earlier threads on this forum, I got firm impression that BFD and Tracktion do not live happily together.
Cheers, Pädy
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 76 posts since 7 Mar, 2005 from Moscow
I checked, my version of Tracktion is from July 2004 (most probably the last one) and BFD is still some of the earlier incarnations.
One project worked flawlessly during 20 repeats and other crashed 2 times again.
It will be very good if developers confirm that T2 with particular version of BFD in heavily edited and tweaked arrangement works stable. Simple edits and drums partitions don't count.
Gyang
One project worked flawlessly during 20 repeats and other crashed 2 times again.
It will be very good if developers confirm that T2 with particular version of BFD in heavily edited and tweaked arrangement works stable. Simple edits and drums partitions don't count.
Gyang
Don't forget that your music might eventually outlive you.
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- KVRAF
- 1600 posts since 1 Apr, 2003 from Seattle, WA
Well Gyang, try the latest BFD and let us know how it goes. You should always stay up to date with your plugs. Especially a newer plug-in like BFD.
Ben
Ben
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- Banned
- 22457 posts since 5 Sep, 2001
[DELETED]