Sonic Reality

Rellik · Post by **Rellik** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:33 am

Will Philharmonik have Key-Switching?

To be specific about what key-switching means, it sets out certain trigger keys (normally far below the lowest note of the multisample) to change the articulation. So if you play a C1, then play some notes, they will all be legato, and then you play a D1, and after that, all the notes you play are marcato. Play an E1, after that everything is staccato. Of course, there are more articulations in Miroslav than that, but just for example purposes.

I ask because I think it's the best way of handling articulations - they're the same instrument/section, so why should there need to be separate tracks for the instrument/section playing a different way? As far as I know, key-switching is utilized in many of the top orchestral libraries and is supported by most of the top samplers, so it's not a totally out-of-the-blue question.

If the answer is no, is there some reason? I hope IK/SR will consider it

.

Also, when does Philharmonik come out?

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:09 pm

AFAIK, Philharmonik uses the SampleTank engine, which doesn’t have key-switching. I would think IK would first need to implement hard disk streaming. Without it, key-switching wouldn’t make much sense – it would use up too much ram to be useful.

/Yoss

Rellik · Post by **Rellik** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:57 pm

How is it more RAM, though? You're going to need most of those articulations loaded anyway if you want to make it realistic.

I know it will be running on the ST2 engine, but I hope it will be modified, since the ST2 engine is not exactly the best for orchestral (as you mentioned, no key-switching). It would be a shame for such a great library to be held back by a sub-par venue.

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:50 pm

Actually, ST2 engine is fantastic for orchestral material in many ways even that other products that do streaming are not. Even Giga. Tools like Stretch for instance can achieve realistic glissandos that you can't do without a lot of trouble figuring out keyswitching techniques with something like VSL... and even then the glissando is a fixed rate where this is as you would touch the bender or adjust the portamento.

There will be articulation changes via midi controllers. As mentioned, key switching isn't in ST2 at the moment. But, as with anything, you never know what the future holds. I will tell you that Miroslav Philharmonik is one of the most realistic and easy to use orchestral solutions all in one (and more portable than large streaming libraries that won't fit on MY laptop for example... and I own most of them!).

Rellik · Post by **Rellik** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:15 pm

Cool

thanks for the info, Squids

Personally, I've always found Stretch to be extremely sketchy-sounding, and it seems to add more grain/dirt to the sound than realism. It's really cool for synthy style sounds, but I've only rarely found it useful for orchestral/acoustic instruments - you must be referring to STRETCH 2 in SampleTank 2.1?

Anyway, the articulation changes via MIDI controls sounds good, and it should eliminate the need for key-switching, if I understand it. Is it like what GPO does? Will it allow you to do legato/soft sections, as well as driving marcato sections, as well as any articulation in the range in between, in the same MIDI track? That's what sounds good to me

should I wait for more info or can you elaborate?

Oh yeah, I just remembered

SampleTank 2 doesn't respond to MIDI automation in FL Studio. Hm... that sure is a show-stopper. I've brought this up before, and I know by now that this is an IK problem so I won't elaborate too much, but the FL developers seem to have no idea what causes it, and I guess I'll try e-mailing IK again.

Rellik · Post by **Rellik** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:27 pm

Ok, notified IK of the problem and all the specifics. Now to wait for them to fix it, or for them to explain to Image-Line how they can fix FL.

What am I going to do if they don't or can't fix it? I don't feel like being mean, since I'm not mad at IK or anything, but if they offer a free piece of software or something then I wouldn't say no... best case scenario is that they help all us FL users out and fix the problem

Kim Lajoie · Post by **Kim Lajoie** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:46 pm

Maybe get the FL folk to talk to Tobybear. Toby's Minihost had the same problem with ST2 for a while, and he recently fixed it.

Forever,

Kim.

Rellik · Post by **Rellik** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:01 am

Good idea

I'll see if I can get in contact with Image-Line over IRC.

Caleb · Post by **Caleb** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:24 am

Squids wrote:Actually, ST2 engine is fantastic for orchestral material in many ways even that other products that do streaming are not. Even Giga. Tools like Stretch for instance can achieve realistic glissandos that you can't do without a lot of trouble figuring out keyswitching techniques with something like VSL... and even then the glissando is a fixed rate where this is as you would touch the bender or adjust the portamento.

There will be articulation changes via midi controllers. As mentioned, key switching isn't in ST2 at the moment. But, as with anything, you never know what the future holds. I will tell you that Miroslav Philharmonik is one of the most realistic and easy to use orchestral solutions all in one (and more portable than large streaming libraries that won't fit on MY laptop for example... and I own most of them!).

Awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome awesome!

Followed by a page-full of "WHEN".

Caleb

Squids · Post by **Squids** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:20 am

and a page full of soon as a reply. Not long actually. We're almost there. I'll come before Studiophonik (which is even harder to do but... it'll be here before you know it).

Rellik · Post by **Rellik** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 6:26 pm

Jeez wrote:Maybe get the FL folk to talk to Tobybear. Toby's Minihost had the same problem with ST2 for a while, and he recently fixed it.

Forever,

Kim.

Are you sure? Image-Line contacted him, but Toby doesn't know anything about the ST2 situation

Kim Lajoie · Post by **Kim Lajoie** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:56 pm

Hmm. I think it was fixed at the same time he did a fix for Steinberg's Groove Agent or something...

Forever,

Kim.

donkey tugger · Post by **donkey tugger** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:06 am

Rellik wrote:
Oh yeah, I just remembered SampleTank 2 doesn't respond to MIDI automation in FL Studio.

It does if you do it by configuring the MIDI out generator to send the controller data, rather than trying to do it directly via the 'last tweaked parameter' method.

Rellik · Post by **Rellik** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:25 pm

No, that's what I mean. That method is what I use for everything, and it doesnt work with SampleTank 2. Try it! Comfirmed by Image-Line a long time ago.

Also, e-mailed back to Image-Line to tell them to tell Toby the new info, Jeez. Thanks!

donkey tugger · Post by **donkey tugger** » Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:14 pm

Rellik wrote:No, that's what I mean. That method is what I use for everything, and it doesnt work with SampleTank 2. Try it! Comfirmed by Image-Line a long time ago.

Also, e-mailed back to Image-Line to tell them to tell Toby the new info, Jeez. Thanks!

Eh? That's weird, cos that works here! Using the latest Fruity and sampletank too. Can automate any of the parameters of sampletank 2 by moving the knob on the midi out. Widows 2000 here, are you on xp then by any chance?

Computers!

Weird shit!

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Philharmonik - Key-Switching?