what features are really important to...

[aldi]

modulr you're right, it's a matter of the perspective. but tracktions timestrech is good enough to hear if a loop would fit in the musical content and 3 years ago nearly none of the sequenzers have had a timestrech that was handled in realtime. you had to klick on the clip you like to strech, a window opens (and this could be the external application), applie the stretch.
moving clips in a sequenzer had to be done very, very often.
but after all, you are right and i like to see better timestrech also.
merge/grouping should also be possible to diffrent tracks, otherwise very quick a part is missing during a move i suggested some time ago a foldertrack that is editable, means, i can cut and edit the foldertrack as if it hold a normal clip and these affects all clips in it.

[valley]

Not to hijack, but on the subject of beating the big-boy sequencers, I think Tracktion needs a big-time producer to come out and say he uses it. When I mention it in virtually any other forum, it gets no respect.

there are a lot of producers who would give you no respect if you used anything other than pro-tools. Cubase/Sonar/Nuendo, and even Samplitude, would be considered "fun toys." Logic fares a little better with this crowd because it runs only on Mac (PCs being, by their nature, toys). I wouldn't take a lot of notice of "what gets respect on certain forums." Some people just need to big themselves up by being part of a "pro" crowd.

It'd be like me going out and buying autocard. I wouldn't be any better an architect/designer/whatever than I would with CadLite, or somesuch. I'd just be $5000 out of pocket. If I was stupid enough though, I could convince myself that the purchase makes me a pro.

[edit] Too may typos removed. Lordy me, I need some sleep.

[aldi]

so damned right i had the same problem in my studio but i handled it with putting a protools wallpaper on my xp and theme my xp with a mactheme and putting my pc in another case. noone ever asked what i'm using

[Mr. Tingle]

you'll never make a pro with that attitude

[dealwithit]

Not to hijack, but on the subject of beating the big-boy sequencers, I think Tracktion needs a big-time producer to come out and say he uses it. When I mention it in virtually any other forum, it gets no respect.

there are a lot of producers who would give you no respect if you used anything other than pro-tools. Cubase/Sonar/Nuendo, and even Samplitude, would be considered "fun toys." Logic fares a little better with this crowd because it runs only on Mac (PCs being, by their nature, toys). I wouldn't take a lot of notice of "what gets respect on certain forums." Some people just need to big themselves up by being part of a "pro" crowd.

No, I'm referring to forums where respect is given to Cubase/Sonar/Logic/Samplitude (Nuendo is Cubase with video). This much is true: Tracktion is viewed as less of a sequencer than those. It is of the Live/Reason/Acid ilk in most opinions. I was a Cubase user, I'm now becoming more and more of a Tracktion user, but it honestly does not have a good reputation as a professional tool. Is it maybe not? Was it maybe never intended as one?

I personally get alot more done in Tracktion than I ever did in Cubase, and I'm not even really sure why, but I do. That's why I choose to use it. But what does it need to make its reputation such that a commercial studio might consider it as they might consider Cubase or Logic? Pro Tools is tied to hardware, so usually once that decision is made, it can't be expected to change.

I guess it boils down to: do the real professionals think T has what it takes to work in a commercial environment (and by pro I mean "makes money", not some ethereal definition)?

[aldi]

no, because I'm a pro user and make money with it i can say this (why? i said it before grouping, folder, snap, good timestretch, fast way for monitormixes on different outputs, faster way to access the eq's (my idea sliders on the filtericons), and (not for me but many pros) something that looks like a mixer (with sliders on filtericons and optional fixed sizes for the icons the rightside tracktion would look like a mixer )

[valley]

and (not for me but many pros) something that looks like a mixer (with sliders on filtericons and optional fixed sizes for the icons the rightside tracktion would look like a mixer )

If they are really pros, and a mixer surface is a big deal for them, then they can afford to add an external control surface to their set-up.

[aldi]

sure, and t2 seems to have this good integrated just mean the look of it. and i forgott : when all the pro features we are talking about at the moment are integrated tracktion must cost minimum 700$ for many pros to believe it's a professional tool (like waves plugins compared to voxengo )

[valley]

tracktion must cost minimum 700$ for many pros to believe it's a professional tool (like waves plugins compared to voxengo )

That was kind of my point. Johnny pro-user doesn't know anything about Tracktion. He's never used it. All he knows is that it doesn't cost an arm and a leg, which means it isn't "pro." If he did know about the issues described above, he'd surely use them to back up his argument, but they wouldn't be the reason.

Tracktion is missing a few features that are needed to really take on Cubase/Sonar etc, but even with those features, too many people will look at the price and decide that it is a toy.

[aldi]

unless many people in many forums can say "ha, this i can also do in tracktion with no problem and it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg" so go mackie and jules make your customers happy and you'll be a strong contender. if tracktion reaches 10 points in every music magazine it WILL beat the others and get to the pro studios. at the moment it seem like magazines love tracktion. and an other thing, when young people are working with it (because it's good and they can afford it) and later have studios, there's no reason to switch to an other when t2 has all it needs. i have had logic and i have the money to buy a mac, but i wanted tracktion, why not any other to.

[RCcola]

This thread is interesting to me because I too have wondered how Tracktion can get a foot inside the door of the 'professional' world. I wonder if maybe the Mackie relationship, with their hardware serving as a trojan horse of sorts might see some success. I could see people experimenting with T out of curiosity, using it to do some 'basic' stuff, and then getting hooked on the speed and simplicity. Many studios already use Logic or DP as front-ends for their PT systems.

I can say that my experiences in Nashville so far suggest that it's mostly PT and Logic, and maybe a few places using DP or Nuendo.

These biases are rather comical- according to an L.A.-based songwriter I spoke with, out there the pop people look at you funny if you're not using Logic and/or PT. And yet, if you're doing film work, DP has a very dedicated following and lots of high-profile use (Lord of the Rings, etc.).

For me, I'm a songwriter with a project studio in my house. I record what I can here, and if/when I need to, I take the partially-completed projects into bigger studios to benefit from their equipment and expertise. I usually render the tracks and take them to the studio on CD, and they bring them into PT. I've done a lot of my stuff with DP, but I'm more than happy now to trumpet Tracktion to anybody that will listen. These guys are making their living using their chosen platform, so I don't see them switching the place over any time soon, but I put it out there for the open-minded ones who like to try new stuff.

[RCcola]

Oh yeah...the 'these features are important to me' part

1. ACID/REX/Apple Loops/Whatever import...in other words, whatever I decide to drag into it, Tracktion handles with ease. That would be peachy. And I think you should be able to audition any of those formats from a cool Jules-browser within Tracktion, while your ditty is playing back, with T shifting the tempo and key on the fly.

2. My all-time favorite- Strength-select on input quantize. If you suck as a player, you'll understand.