Anyway, regarding the complaining, I think it all boils down to 'do you want me to buy this or not?' That's a pretty valid question for Mackie to answer.
T2 information - April (?)
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- KVRAF
- 9096 posts since 5 Feb, 2004
OT: If you took away all the threads here about people asking about T2 in the last six months, there would probably be two threads a day
Anyway, regarding the complaining, I think it all boils down to 'do you want me to buy this or not?' That's a pretty valid question for Mackie to answer.
Anyway, regarding the complaining, I think it all boils down to 'do you want me to buy this or not?' That's a pretty valid question for Mackie to answer.
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Sure, but you don't have to ask it 20 different times, and it still seems like a strange thing for a customer to do. If Levi's announces that they're re-introducing the classic 501 button-fly jean, and I'm excited because it's my favourite cut of jeans, I'm not going to call them every day asking where the heck the jeans are and telling them that if they don't want to lose a customer, they'd better start selling NOW.
Instead, I'll keep popping into Warren's House of Britches until I see them on the shelf, and I might occasionally ask the manager if they've gotten a shipment yet.
Meanwhile, the jeans I own are still doing the job they were meant to do, which is protecting the unsuspecting public from seeing my scrawny legs.
I guess what it comes down to is this: people have gotten so "close" to Tracktion (partly due to the cool community we have here) that they forget that the usual rules of marketing and so forth STILL apply. While Tracktion may seem magnificent and wonderful to us (
), at the end of the day it's still a product and still follows the same procedures as any other product being released (well, with the exception of trying not to use its user-base for a live beta test on a 'full release' product... I'm looking at you, Steinberg).
Let's face it, the jeans example makes all this whining seem really silly, but that's what an effective counter-example should do. It should take the argument out of context, give it the same parameters, and allow the debater to see it in a new perspective. Since we don't have the same emotional investment in our jeans, it seems silly that we'd beg for the 501's every day. When you're left with just objectivity, it's very easy to see why it's so bizarre to be complaining and demonstrating such impatience for T2.
It IS just a product, after all....
If it seems 'badly handled', it's only because you've lost perspective. To any non-Tracktioneer who has no 'stake', it's ridiculous to them that some people are getting so worked up. Outsiders recognize that the marketing has been normal and even effective. Advertising is for potential new customers, not the people already converted. And I'm betting that some of the ads have gotten some people very curious. It would be folly to not deliver the product SOON, but they haven't passed that "expiry date" yet. The milk has not soured.
Greg
Instead, I'll keep popping into Warren's House of Britches until I see them on the shelf, and I might occasionally ask the manager if they've gotten a shipment yet.
Meanwhile, the jeans I own are still doing the job they were meant to do, which is protecting the unsuspecting public from seeing my scrawny legs.
I guess what it comes down to is this: people have gotten so "close" to Tracktion (partly due to the cool community we have here) that they forget that the usual rules of marketing and so forth STILL apply. While Tracktion may seem magnificent and wonderful to us (
), at the end of the day it's still a product and still follows the same procedures as any other product being released (well, with the exception of trying not to use its user-base for a live beta test on a 'full release' product... I'm looking at you, Steinberg).Let's face it, the jeans example makes all this whining seem really silly, but that's what an effective counter-example should do. It should take the argument out of context, give it the same parameters, and allow the debater to see it in a new perspective. Since we don't have the same emotional investment in our jeans, it seems silly that we'd beg for the 501's every day. When you're left with just objectivity, it's very easy to see why it's so bizarre to be complaining and demonstrating such impatience for T2.
It IS just a product, after all....
If it seems 'badly handled', it's only because you've lost perspective. To any non-Tracktioneer who has no 'stake', it's ridiculous to them that some people are getting so worked up. Outsiders recognize that the marketing has been normal and even effective. Advertising is for potential new customers, not the people already converted. And I'm betting that some of the ads have gotten some people very curious. It would be folly to not deliver the product SOON, but they haven't passed that "expiry date" yet. The milk has not soured.
Greg
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- KVRAF
- 9096 posts since 5 Feb, 2004
Not really. They announced there would be a public beta, retracted that as a misprint, said it would be available in the weeks following namm, then early March. Now they have no estimation. They haven't announced the upgrade path or the complete feature set, they have reviews in print without a product to sell, They did that lame striptease and left it asking for you to check back every week up for months without an update. C'mon, you can say people shouldn't complain but to deny the release hasn't been handled poorly and communication to their userbase hasn't been less than ideal is denial.Lunch Money wrote:If it seems 'badly handled', it's only because you've lost perspective.
I'm not trying to be too harsh on Mackie, just defending my point. It'll be ready when it's ready, they shouldn't release it before then. But they should also learn their lesson and do a better PR job on the next iteration.
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new
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- KVRian
- 517 posts since 21 Aug, 2003 from so cal
what bugs me is that if we didnt ask, they wouldnt tell us.
yes beno announced todoay thing are taking longer than expected, but its coming soon. if we didnt ask everyday whats the deal, im pretty sure he wouldnt have mentioned anything.
thats what bothers me, but im making tunes in t1 so i can wait. i just like being kept in the loop.
yes beno announced todoay thing are taking longer than expected, but its coming soon. if we didnt ask everyday whats the deal, im pretty sure he wouldnt have mentioned anything.
thats what bothers me, but im making tunes in t1 so i can wait. i just like being kept in the loop.
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- KVRAF
- 16154 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN
What gets me are the people who claim they got ripped off by Jules or Mackie on T1. They claim that Tracktion didn't work the way they expected or the way it should.
Again, as LM said, I challenge you to find ANY feature that was PROMISED to us by Jules or anybody. He said he would like to add features, and wanted to try and get features in, but never was anything promised.
And the biggest thing of all, is that if you bought Tracktion and it didn't do what you need, it's YOUR FAULT. There was a fully working demo with the exception of a noise every so often. But all the features were there, and you had the chance to try the FULL software and it's features. If you bought it, then you got what you paid for. Nobody screwed you. Nobody lied to you. Nobody pulled the wool over your eyes or took any features away from you. YOU bought it, that's it. Why do people feel they have to blame Jules or Mackie for this?
Koolkeys
Again, as LM said, I challenge you to find ANY feature that was PROMISED to us by Jules or anybody. He said he would like to add features, and wanted to try and get features in, but never was anything promised.
And the biggest thing of all, is that if you bought Tracktion and it didn't do what you need, it's YOUR FAULT. There was a fully working demo with the exception of a noise every so often. But all the features were there, and you had the chance to try the FULL software and it's features. If you bought it, then you got what you paid for. Nobody screwed you. Nobody lied to you. Nobody pulled the wool over your eyes or took any features away from you. YOU bought it, that's it. Why do people feel they have to blame Jules or Mackie for this?
Koolkeys
My host is better than your host
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- KVRAF
- 9096 posts since 5 Feb, 2004
I never felt ripped off personally. There was a demo, anyone could have seen what was what with T1.koolkeys wrote:What gets me are the people who claim they got ripped off by Jules or Mackie on T1. They claim that Tracktion didn't work the way they expected or the way it should.
BUT...
Timestrech sure didn't work as I expected, I actually bought it thinking that would get fixed. At least in T2, which apparently isn't the case.
And the ReWire bug really should have been fixed some time ago. It was a P1 issue IMO.
But anyway. No big deal.
If you have requests for Korg VST features or changes, they are listening at https://support.korguser.net/hc/en-us/requests/new
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- KVRian
- 1322 posts since 26 Mar, 2004 from UK
I expect they feel like they can't do anything right. Give em a break, I'm sure they're both doing their best.Dimwit wrote:Do you think Beno and Jules get a laugh out of this craziness every day.
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- KVRAF
- 2009 posts since 9 Apr, 2003 from Cornwall, UK
If I was them I be inclined to treat this user base the way it deserves. What do you deserve? How would you treat this user base?
In defense of those that are irritated: This T2 thing has been going on from this time LAST year, remember? It is a long time to wait and the final furlong seems the hardest to cross.
In defense of those that are irritated: This T2 thing has been going on from this time LAST year, remember? It is a long time to wait and the final furlong seems the hardest to cross.
Last edited by Mr. Tingle on Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRist
- 453 posts since 10 Jul, 2003 from Rotterdam
I strongly disagree. If, after working with the program for a few months, you figure out that unwanted glitches in your tracks are being caused by a serious T1 bug (one that you needed a few months to pinpoint), is that your fault?And the biggest thing of all, is that if you bought Tracktion and it didn't do what you need, it's YOUR FAULT.
I'm not saying it doesnt do what i need. But there's one big bug that takes up a lot of 'working-around time' for me.
I don't think anyones broken any promises but i sympathise with other people complaining about T1 bugs, and i think it'd be a smart move by mackie/tracktion to address them.
Last edited by cbit on Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRian
- 1225 posts since 11 Aug, 2004 from France
This forum is impressive 
I hope Jules has nothing to do with every one whic is trolling here...
The only things which should be important are that Jules have created a great soft, with his little digits and only them, he doesn't have the same means than some great firms, and not the same motivations... Fortunately, because I don't want a Tracktion SX 3 in 5 months for only 500 euros in limited edition, full of bugs, of functions I won't use and which is very slow. The only price to paid for this, a revolutionary musical tool with the most of things we want, and a different approach of what is the best for us, the non professional people, is only... to be patient !!!! Is that so much to ask ?
I have not been a Tracktioneer for a long time, but I can't understand this attitude of some people here. Jules has provided something for you, he gives you the hand, you take the entire arm and ask more and more... and you have not seen T2 yet ! I can't imagine what that will be when you find something that needs to be better in T2 then... And it's just a soft, that can't justify so much agitation ! If T2 is released in 2010, your music won't be worse until this date !
Some people forgets Jules is alone, and is not a machine. I hope he's just thinking about the REAL people who are with him and with his work...
I hope Jules has nothing to do with every one whic is trolling here... The only things which should be important are that Jules have created a great soft, with his little digits and only them, he doesn't have the same means than some great firms, and not the same motivations... Fortunately, because I don't want a Tracktion SX 3 in 5 months for only 500 euros in limited edition, full of bugs, of functions I won't use and which is very slow. The only price to paid for this, a revolutionary musical tool with the most of things we want, and a different approach of what is the best for us, the non professional people, is only... to be patient !!!! Is that so much to ask ?
I have not been a Tracktioneer for a long time, but I can't understand this attitude of some people here. Jules has provided something for you, he gives you the hand, you take the entire arm and ask more and more... and you have not seen T2 yet ! I can't imagine what that will be when you find something that needs to be better in T2 then... And it's just a soft, that can't justify so much agitation ! If T2 is released in 2010, your music won't be worse until this date !
Some people forgets Jules is alone, and is not a machine. I hope he's just thinking about the REAL people who are with him and with his work...
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- KVRist
- 39 posts since 16 Feb, 2004 from Fredrikstad, Norway
Personally I have been checking in on this forum (and Mackies site) daily since november last year, thinking "maybe it's released today". I know a lot of you have done the same. It's no wonder some of us become a little agitated 5 months later.
I'm not saying Mackie owes me anything, I just feel it would be a good business policy for any company to communicate clearly to its costumer base about what's going on. Beno is a great member of this forum, but nothing beats good ol' official information.
Of course, unexpected delays are common in software development, but I have to say that whole thing with the "check back every week" list over at Mackie's is quite amateurish marketing, and unexpected by such a company as Mackie.
I'm not saying Mackie owes me anything, I just feel it would be a good business policy for any company to communicate clearly to its costumer base about what's going on. Beno is a great member of this forum, but nothing beats good ol' official information.
Of course, unexpected delays are common in software development, but I have to say that whole thing with the "check back every week" list over at Mackie's is quite amateurish marketing, and unexpected by such a company as Mackie.
Think before you think before you speak
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- KVRist
- 328 posts since 30 Jan, 2004
Just for a bit of perspective on this, having the new version of your favourite sequencer turn up late is not a great problem - wheras this sort of thing really is a great problem.
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- KVRian
- 903 posts since 14 May, 2003
They don't have top release it all if they don't want to--I think I was released too soon.
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- KVRian
- 1022 posts since 7 Sep, 2004
Like someone already mentioned, I'm only really interested in the improved MIDI editing support, so I certainly don't need T2, let alone quickly.
However, the whole point of "hype" is that you get the userbase excited in anticipation, releasing screenshots and info and generally cockteasing (for want of a better word...).
I think Mackie blew the whistle a little too soon, and hype easily turns to annoyance after a while. I just wish they'd kept the lid on it a little longer, as it's been a fair while to keep the excitement going.
However, the whole point of "hype" is that you get the userbase excited in anticipation, releasing screenshots and info and generally cockteasing (for want of a better word...).
I think Mackie blew the whistle a little too soon, and hype easily turns to annoyance after a while. I just wish they'd kept the lid on it a little longer, as it's been a fair while to keep the excitement going.