upgrade price??

[headquest]

I'd still like to know how much it's going to be regardless of when it's due out. I don't see what the problem is with letting everyone know the price now! Future Music said £150 in the review. Not sure if that was a guess but if it's correct then when can we assume the upgrade for registered owners of T1 will be?

I think the Future Music quote highlights the fact that the relative prices between T1 and T2 will vary from one territory to another. Here in the UK the exchange rate has been in our favour when buying T1 online. $80 works out at around £44.

But with a boxed version in shops the pricing, I imagine, will be set in local territories (as with Cakewalk/Edirol, etc) and outside the USA this may be disadvantageous (as with... you got it).

So if £149 quoted in FM is correct, that is a rise of 340%, which is extraordinary. While in the USA the rise from $80 to $199 is 250% - much lower.

This also causes problems when it comes to Mackie fulfilling their previous pledge to ensure that the difference between T1 and T2 prices will be more than the upgrade price.

I think the most viable solution would be for the T1 to T2 upgrade being a download in $. But that causes issues for those not on broadband... and so it goes...

[Lunch Money]

Occam's razor dictates that the 140 quid price was a typo or miscommunication.

[timmyo]

I dohn;t know who this Occam fellow is but I'll be taking a razor to someone if I have to pay the difference between $80 and £149 !

[Lunch Money]

You wouldn't be the only one, I'm sure. And just in case you weren't ONLY saying that for humour:

In its simplest form, Occam's Razor states that one should not make more assumptions than needed. When multiple explanations are available for a phenomenon, the simplest version is preferred. A charred tree on the ground could be caused by a landing alien ship or a lightning strike. According to Occam's Razor, the lightning strike is the preferred explanation as it requires the fewest assumptions.

Of all the explanations to justify the 150 quid price that was printed, the simplest is that it was a typo or miscommunication.

[headquest]

Then again, if you take a few moments to compare Mackie hardware prices in US vs. UK, you might notice something

[Lunch Money]

Sounds like WORK!

[headquest]

Sounds like WORK!

[Motion]

There is definately complications when it comes to international pricing....I recently saw the upgrade price for Project 5 V1 users which is $79....there is as yet no formal pricing in the UK.(an email from Edirol stated that this will be announced next week)

It seems as per usual that the long standing European userbase who promotes and supports the products usually hear last and pay the most(I like many have no problem with paying a fair and decent upgrade price to the developer,however the UK site will let you have access to an upgrade form for a free V2 if you buy V1 now which is considerably less than what it used to cost....just another little point that pisses off the existing userbase more)

Now and in the past many Europeans complain about these very issues that headquest points out relative to their bretheren and currency exchanges.

I appreciate that dollar to pound conversions bodes well for the UK heads but this has to be aligned with standard of living costs...I would imagine that the dollar has as much value in the respective territory as the pound does here(not much these days)...much disharmony is created when people feel that the product paid for is/can be in exchange rate terms 100%/200%/300% more.

As far as I'm aware the product is made wherever?(cheapest place for labour therefor maximising the profit even more....fair enough)there is distribution,marketing,production,wages,transport,
materials etc...the price is set....it is then shipped and stocked to wherever....does the cost related to shipping,distribution,transport and labour justify after payment in your countries respective currency then get re exchanged and sent to America? where obviously the company is receiveing a massive overcharge for their product by playing the exchange rate game?Or is it the distributors that are just being greedy?Or is it a bit of both?

I can understand that Europeans will pay more due to the above and Tax...but is the price difference/discrepancy a reasonable refection of all this?At 100% plus I find this difficult to personally believe.

However the above is hard to determine because their are so many details...exactly what does the company and author receive after all this?

Cakewalk have in the past intimated that there is nothing they can do about what is charged by the distributor...this is vague because exchange rates should be taken into consideration...however some recent reports have mentioned that they may have some form of consultation in these matters as it was more than likely damaging sales.Prices do seem to appear more fairer of late and not a direct dollar/pound equaliser.

The exact ins and outs of distributor licensing versus msrp/exchange rates is largely unknown to me perhaps others can clarify who know more about this.
(I suspect this is an entirely private and closed matter between the trib,suits and dev(s))but I do believe that it is and has been used in the past as a means to excessively overcharge European customers in various guises.

Personally I just excercise my consumer right and don't buy it when I feel that this might be going on.But it's bloody annoying and frustrating when you feel that this has to be the posistion taken due more to principle than your need for the product.

I suspect many bite the bullet and move on because they may rely on their software for their income etc.

The UK has been a standing joke for a long time when it comes to the consumer.Fortunately new regulations from the relevant bureaucrats pressed heavily by consumer groups and endless complaints has gone someway toward addressing the balance over the past years.

The UK was known as "treasure island" regards potential new and existing marketing...basically charge whatever you think you can get away with and what the market will bear....then ajust accordingly to taste!Exploitation was rife.

Eg...numerous hammerings were giving to manufacturers who were caught bullying and refusing to or threatening to stock distributors/retailers if minimum prices for electrical goods were not adhered to...in short a huge scam on price fixing was uncovered.

Various car manufacturers who refused to supply car parts to independant garages were also a bone of contention here...forcing the buyer to pay inflated charges for servicing and repair unless you were approved by them.This is no longer the case.

We all know how much BA tried to f**k over Virgin and Freddy Laker using unfair practices.

Jeez...even Intel complained that the internet and the computer uptake in the UK was being held back due to a suspicion related to over and unrealistic pricing.

The list goes on and on...

Yes it's a consumer world.....good ol' supply and demand,market dominance and keeping your grip on it...but I believe it should be tempered with decency,fairness and integrity as far as is reasonably possible given the tough world of buisness and the need for partnership with others....dishonesty,greed and other tactics to obtain more are unfortunately always going to be a by product of capitalism...not so hard to believe that people engineer wars to make money..the most distasteful of all

I'll better STFU now as I'm going to end up ranting.

[headquest]

Lots of excellent points, Motion

[mapper]

Totally agree motion...I would also like to add that being a Vegan and ecologically minded I really dont want a packaged version with all the fol der rol that goes with it...
to me it's just pollution..more paper and plastic to eventually be recycled or more often than not thrown into landfill.
Basically a download and unlock key was one reason I tried Tracktion..
No packaging!!
Get the message mackie???
A simple e-mail or message on your website will suffice.

[valley]

some of it is deliberate price fixing: and contrary to the belief of far too many Brits, it runs both ways[1].

Some of it is simply "what the market will bear." Everything is priced according to that law.

Some of it is simply a response to extra costs in different territories. In England, land is a premium, so warehousing is significantly more expensive than in the US. Petrol is pricey, so shipping costs are correspondingly increased.

Also, whilst the exchamnge rate *today* may make a product look unfailry priced in two different countries, a distributor has to factor in the extreme likelihood that the exchange rate will move over time. They can;t keep shifting their prices each and every time Bush feels like weakening the dollar, so they have to use a standard best-fit line for what the normal currency exchnage is.



[1] When I travel to the UK, I like to buy *US* academic text books, because the are on avearge (even with the evil exchange rate) about 35-40% cheaper than in the US. A few years back the difference was even more staggering.

[rich_h]

So if £149 quoted in FM is correct, that is a rise of 340%, which is extraordinary.

It would be if the number was correct. It's actually an increase of about 200% (assuming starting at £50).

Start at £50 and add 100% brings you to £100 and a further 100% (of the starting figure) brings you to £150.

Or to put it another way:

(end number - start number)
--------------------------- * 100
(start number)

So actually an *increase* of 198%

Still remarkable, though. SOrry, I'm a pedant!

(The end value is 298% of the original figure, though.)

[headquest]

I was basing on £44 - exchange rate of $1.8 to the pound. Bottom line is... the price is going up!

[rich_h]

I was basing on £44 - exchange rate of $1.8 to the pound. Bottom line is... the price is going up!

Absolutely - I'm just in one of those moods!

[rendermonster]

I just want it without the included plugs, wich I don´t really need and only on the soft way, for less money.