What the man from Mackie told me yesterday

[AD80]

We are being idealistic here... the markets dont work that way. You see a product, you want that. Not an older version that lets you update in the future.

Is that the reason everybody was looking for Reason 2.5 for sale, and Project 5 V1 boxes when R3 and P5v2 were announced?

[AD80]

But it's just possible that there are a few musicians out there who will see the adds and not know about the discount

If you really want a product you're gonna try to found out more about it. ESPECIALLY if its not available yet. All it would take is one question in the mackie forum or here to set that person straight. Musicians arent as helpless and ignorant as you marketing experts think.

[Sidhu]

OK, I get the idea... but i could still argue that the repute enjoyed by Reason and Cakewalk is still way above the awaareness levels of tracktion... I know im now pushing it. So good night (morning actually) to everyone... see ya in 6hrs...

[braj]

New customer would not have T1.

They would if they know whats good for them. Especially if they like the T2 demo which is a more polished version of T1. And especially since its well known that T1 customers recieve a discount on T2. And to top it all off T2 projects can be opened in T1. So you would pretty much have to be an idiot not to.

I hope you're joking. A new customer that is considering the new demo for a product they never heard of should go buy the previous version 'if they know what's good for them'? It's *not* really well known to anyone but people who really follow this forum that there is a discount for T1 users. And I also failed to see notice that new demo users can open their demo projects in T1? I just don't get your entire thought pattern here.

[headquest]

Musicians arent as helpless and ignorant as you marketing experts think.

I'm not a marketing expert. I'm a musician. And I am helpless

[koolkeys]

New customer would not have T1.

They would if they know whats good for them. Especially if they like the T2 demo which is a more polished version of T1. And especially since its well known that T1 customers recieve a discount on T2. And to top it all off T2 projects can be opened in T1. So you would pretty much have to be an idiot not to.

I hope you're joking. A new customer that is considering the new demo for a product they never heard of should go buy the previous version 'if they know what's good for them'? It's *not* really well known to anyone but people who really follow this forum that there is a discount for T1 users. And I also failed to see notice that new demo users can open their demo projects in T1? I just don't get your entire thought pattern here.

I think he said that with a joking attitude. Nothing to get worked up about.

Anyway, I don't understand first of all how some people think they are entitled to things. Sidhu, this is NOT directed at you, since you've said you have no problems with the restrictions.

But why do people complain when the demo doesn't work 100% with all the features? Remember the old Cool Edit demos? Yeah, you got to choose like four features from a list that you wanted to use, and that's all you could use for that time until you reopened. Be glad we don't have it like that.

And demos are not meant to be used as the key software in a studio. They are to get the feet wet in the program to decide if you like how it works. Many programs have used the noise, and most demos won't let you save. So what's the big deal?

I will concede that Mackie is behind schedule. But what music software company DOESN'T get behind schedule? Most do. And I'm talking about several MONTHS past release dates, not just a couple. But it's just the way it works, so what?!?!

[EDITED]
Ya know what, I don't even care.

[AD80]

I'm gonna email Jules to tell him to put the original T1 demo noise back (aka the BUZZ SAW). Then everybody will be happy.

[semiquaver]

haydxn:

the waste of money was doing the advertising blitz without there being any way to take people's money! where's the mystery there?

The best way to hook people into a complex piece of software like T is a time limited demo: people get projects started - they love working with it - and they pay to continue. Of course it should be available when the time comes and the demo should work well.

re: the noise, no I can't work with it. Its not like checking out a softsynth where you are listening to "the sound" and you can get a good sense of it. In T its the workflow you are trying to get a sense of - the workflow includes critical listening, editing, performing, engineering - these are things that are unbearable with a noise burst popping in and out. I can't believe that any musician could ignore something like that! I don't mind it in a vsti but in a DAW its crazy.

But why be so freaked out about a simple enough observation of M's marketing foulup? Why be so invested in these people's job performance?

[koolkeys]

[valley]

I was actually working with T2 demo on Friday as I installed the demo on a family member's PC. (He is a T1 user, but doesn't have broadband, and Mackie are being a bit silly bundling the Mac and PC versions into one huge dialup busting download IMHO).

I really can;t see why people are so bothered by the noise. It was pretty infrequent, and for testing purposes really not that intrusive. ONe of the better demo limitation I've encountered frankly. Maybe it would be nice if it gave you a week of hiss free usage before it started to pester, but all-in-all it could be much worse.

[braj]

I see everyone's point, no one is really wrong IMO. There are a few ways you can makes a demo limited and some people won't like the way it's implemented. I honestly don't think you could make everyone happy unless you made unlimited with an honor system registration. Since that ain't gonna happen, of course some people will be put off. Whaddya gonna do? Fagedda 'boud it

[valley]

Interesting that all the ire here is being reserved for the marketing folks. How are you so sure it was *they* that dropped the ball? Presumably they were given a deadline, and they worked to just as you would expect them to. If someone else dropped the ball, they can't be held responsible for their dates being awry, surely?

Personally I couldn't give a crap who is responsible for the release date slipping. Things happen. I find it a little distasteful though to see people throwing blame and calls for the rolling of heads when they have absolutely no clue where any blame lays, or even if there truly is blame to be apportioned, How would you feel if it were you being maligned on a forum by a bunch of loudmouths, when you can't defend your reputation, or put the record straight?

[semiquaver]

Valley - I certainly meant no slight of any individual - as you say I don't know how to account for the roll-out glitches, who's at fault, whatever. I don't fault anyone for the product being late. Things happen. The mistake was releasing the ads and demo without there being a way to buy. I'm not all that put out by it - I have T1 after all. I just want them to do a good job with this launch so that the platform can survive and grow. So when something seems to have been poorly done, by whomever, I don't see that there's any harm in saying so.

[koolkeys]

My personal "side" opinion on why the demo was released was that they planned the ads around when they actually planned on releasing T2, but then came to some hitches, which we know to be contract related and some bug related, that prevented them from releasing. However, the ads did all say something about a demo. So they kind of HAD to put it up.

I think they would have lost more people by NOT having the demo up, since some would have just walked away. This way, at least most people would download the demo and if they do like it, they would wait, knowing that it's worth waiting for.

Again, I don't think it's really anyone's fault. It's truly unfair to blame anyone. Mackie most likely came across some unforseen glitches in their plan, which happens. And they had probably LONG before it happened already sent ad copies off to many mags, so it was too late.

This is all just an idea of what happened, but maybe at least SOMEONE can live with that idea. Remember, our official word from Mackie is Beno, and he has been gone since right before the demo came out. So alot of questions have come up. Maybe when he returns, he can say more. Or maybe not. But the fact is that nothing we say or do will change what's going to happen. This is one reason I always "complain about the complainers" so to speak.

Peace, ya'll. Those at Mackie aren't trying to screw us. They just want to put food on the table too. Humans, they are, and so are you.

Koolkeys

[valley]

semiquaver: fair 'enuff.

And I don't take any exception to people stating concerns. I'm just finding the tone of some posts recently to be unecessarily incendiary or disingenuous.

Clearly things have not gone entirely according to plan. Annoyingly though, a few of the very loudest voices ranting against Mackie and their "botched" release, were just a few months back crying out loudest for information, accusing Mackie of excessive secretiveness. At the time, others tried to point out that companies don't normally make advance statements at risk of causing bad feelings if unforseen circumstances cause plans to change later in the game.

I'm not a rabid fanboy, and I'm quite capable of seeing fault in Mackie, Tracktion, and Jules. However, when I see posts that basically declare the world to be thus, I'm going to step in if the poster is completely misrepresenting the facts.

To put it another way, the only thing that really tends to wind me up is a lack of what I perceive to be fair play. To me, questioning the competence or integrity of people that one has never met, when one has no information other than the idle speculation of a group of other equally uninformed people, is deeply unfair. Especially when the accusation can be made but not refuted. THat just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. That's why I get a little preachy.

As for wanting to see Tracktion grow, I'm hoping that once the T2 hoopla dies down, some of the initiatives taken by ModuLR and the other beta testers, combined with a once more constrtuctive and helpful user group here, can really do a lot to help present to Mackie a strong and clear idea of where we as users would like to see Tracktion go.