dear sirs and madams

[lharless]

If both signals are passed through to your monitors then the computer signal will be behind the the 0 latency signal by the amount of latency your system has.

thats simple enough. understood.

and about the POD. i do have one of those too. hehe. but i don't really like to commit when im doing overdubs if i don't have to, when im using something like the POD, because there are so many things that can go wrong with the tone in the final mix, but to doublr track using both signals is a good idea. what exact equipment would i need for this? just one of my DI boxes i guess... or a y cable... if i used a y cable before going to the amp, and just preamped the other one clean into the software, then i could just get tone later using the amp sim. would a y cable work for this? since im preamping it would there be anything wrong with going with a y cable? kind of like splitting the signal..


i wouldnt have to isolate the second signal with a transformer or anything would i?

what im envisioning is this: guitar, mono y cable, two leads coming out of the y cable, one into the amp/POD for monitoring, then one clean one into a preamp, into the daw. and of course, i could mic the amp as well and preamp it into the daw. sounds simple and easy. but a long work around for something that i used to be able to do on my pt le system.

don't get me wrong, im not saying pt le is better, or that i don't like tracktion (i love it, and want to stay with it no matter what), im just saying that i miss the old "no latency" with plugins that i used to have. but i guess i souldnt go on about that in here.

i apologize. but the ideas im getting for work arounds are nice. and maybe i will find the correct settings and they will be fine and then i wont have to use these work arounds (which actually are more sound than my amp sim habit)...

thanks!

[Lunch Money]

For a hobbyist, a Y-cable can probably get the job done. For even semi-pro results, though, you'll want a proper active splitter box.

Your theory is spot-on, though-- for utmost convenience using the POD, you'll want to record the clean and POD-driven signals to 2 separate tracks.

Regarding the "no latency" thing, I'm convinced that something is just buggered in your setup. Once it's sorted, you'll be tracking in realtime like you're accustomed to.

[IIRs]

I don't have a pod, but I have a feeling you can set up one output to be dry (eg to feed an amp on-stage) while another is amped (eg to feed the FOH stacks), so a splitter or Y-lead may be unneccessary..

[Mr. Tingle]

Lee,

I've had some experience with the onyx and a laptop.

If the onxy is setup correctly then it will meet your requirements.

Here are some tips:

-Try different drivers in settings/ audio devices page of Tracktion. The onyx comes with a number of drivers, some are better than others for latency. experiment.

-click 'restart device' between changing latency settings. and make sure the tracktion latency slider is the same as the ASIO control panel for the onyx.

-having a laptop with a full built in firewire port (not a pccard) may be a factor.

-Choose plugins (VST's) that have low latency for doing overdubs. check by dropping one on a track, then selecting the track and see what the auto-advance number is.

-do not use SIR convolusion reverb for overdubs!

the onyx and tracktion are a great combo.

Mike

[lharless]

ok. ill check into these things. thanks. these are more great ideas and possible solutions.

yeah... i wasn't too keen on the y cable idea either, after laying in bed thinking about it last night, i figured out that the signal would be greatly depreciated if i tried to split it at the source, at least if it weren't actively split. actually would have never tried that fix in the first place.

im not too crazy about the tone of my POD. and it's one of the older POD units (1.0). at least to me it sounds kind of funny, and i can't quite figure it out. it lays on the floor under my spare cables in my clothes closet. lol.

ill try other drivers. see.. i don't fully understand the relationship between drivers and audio. would another driver potentially give me less latency? have the onyx drivers been known to give more latency than, say, another? please advise on a good all around driver that would possibly give better results?

[Graeme]

...im just saying that i miss the old "no latency" with plugins that i used to have. but i guess i souldnt go on about that in here.

Let's get something straight here. All plugins experience some latency - it's the nature of the beast - the host software is relatively immaterial in this particular sense. The fact it used to work with PT and doesn't with Tracktion merely indicates (at least, it does to me) that you now have a different monitoring setup.

If you are hearing repeat echoes (slapback, I think it was described as in one post) then I can only say what I said in my original post, you are monitoring the same signal from two different sources and the echo is the latency between these two signals.

You can either listen to the input or the output of the plugin (obviously without any FX on the former) but can not listen to both, that's where the problem lies. If your latency is only 6 mS, then this really won't affect the timing of your playing to any amount, even if you are listening to the output.

[lharless]

i know what's wrong with my description now.

for instance, when recording drums, i hear the snare drum (the whole kit) a few milisecs or whatever after the actual hit of the stick. as if theres a delay in the sound getting to my ears through the headphones. and since there is a little leakage of sound from the originating source, i can hear it before i can hear it in the headphones. that's what's happening.

now, maybe theres a way to make this go away when i track a guitar through an amp sim. i need to find out how to do this, so i can get the guitar to at least be within a manageable amount, so that its as unnoticeable as possible.

i monitor through the headphone jack on the onyx mixer for most everything related to tracking. i monitor through studio monitors when im at mixdown, and they're hooked to the onyx. the onys allows 16 in and a stereo out via firewire for input and monitoring. should i be experiencing this with such a nice system? would a cardbus firewire i/o bring the latency down a bit, as opposed to using the 6pin from onyx to 4pin in the laptop? (6 to 4 pin adapter). or ...(would the 6pin to 6 pin cardbus i/o be better?)...

my aim is to be able to overdub with as near to zero latency as possible through the onyx monitor section. i can hear everything clearly. theres just a time delay from the source being made, until it hits my ear drum. very short delay, and never repeating, just a delay until the sound gets through whatever it's going through, then to my ears.

i need to get rid of this as best as is possible.

im sorry to repeat myself, i think i may have described the problem a little different than was happening. my apologies again.

i can stand to track this way, no problem as im only getting levels and not worried about the latency at this point as long as the signal gets onto disc. it's when im going to do an overdub that the latency needs to be at it's most unnoticeable.

phew! there, sorry for the confusion.

thanks fellas! i really need your help here, and ill try to repay the favor someday if we can get this one figured out.

not to be weird or anything, but should i consider calling mackie and having a tech person walk me through it? im almost certain it's gonna take that. im not as savy with computer setup as one needs to be to get eberything set perfectly with win xp....and i know...that's sad.... haha!

i think with the suggestions that you've given me, i may be able to figure out something. im going to print all of this out and use it tomorrow as im off again from the shop and only have a few things to do in the morning hours. then im on it like rice on stirfry...

hooah!

[willowhaus]

Re: splitting the guitar for tracking - what you want to do is to get a decent DI box, preferably active but passive will do. Go from the guitar into the DI, then take the XLR out from the DI to the Onyx & take the 1/4" out from the DI to the Pod/Amp/whatever you're plugging into.

This will send correctly matched impedances to each input, and the loss from splitting the guitar's output should be negligable.

Another way is to go into the guitar amp, then tap off the preamp out of the amp into the DI - but that's only if you want the preamp sound, of course.

Lee, your setup sounds interesting. I'm up in Roanoke myself - maybe if I'm down your way one of these days we could meet up.

Christopher

[lharless]

Lee, your setup sounds interesting. I'm up in Roanoke myself - maybe if I'm down your way one of these days we could meet up.

Christopher

that'd be great. i work at ridenhour music in christiansburg virginia. i work the late shift, so im there until 9pm when i work. i'd be extremely grateful for any input you may have.

if you ever have any day time hours off and you're ever around the blacksburg area, i could have you over to the house. my g/f makes nice dinners. we could sit and you could see the setup and i could tap your knowledge on some of these issues im having.

if you fancy having a drink, we could meet up and discuss it in a public place, if you're not comfortable going to somebody's houes..haha!

but feel free to give me a call. im up all hours. i rarely sleep. so.. however you want to work it out. im usually available all day sundays, tuesdays, and occasionally a wednesday, all daytime hours up into the evening...

give it a think. we're nice people. and we'll feed ya or buy you some drinks for the help.

thanks! see ya later maybe.

--


im going to set up everything today, right now, and try some of these things you all have mentioned.

im sure theres a fix in there somewhere. im just feeling lazy today. phew! late shift last night, and hardly any rest. you guys know how it goes!

[willowhaus]

Heh - I thought there was a music store in your world somewhere. Thanks for the offer - I wouldn't mind seeing what you've got going there, & if I can help somehow I'm happy to.

[Lunch Money]

Christopher - I've never heard of a passive DI box.

Lee - Now that your description is updated, it just sounds like the latency being reported (6ms) isn't accurate. At 6ms you shouldn't notice that delay.

[willowhaus]

A Passive DI doesn't need phantom power, while an active DI does. Generally, you get better performance from an active DI - and you'll also pay a bit more for them.

[lharless]

i called mackie today while i had the stuff hooked up.

we got the latency down to a low level. but i can't do much with it at that level while im mixing down. and i surely can't use amplitube while at low latency levels. ill have to wait until i get to the final mix phase for that plug. but it's still available at some point, and that's ok by me.

ill have to change the way i do things. but ill be ok.

and maybe im just thinking about the way to go about things all wrong. im no expert. and i admit to being an amateur trying to take on a professional role.

i make money doing what i do, but im not the best at figuring out the best way to go about it at all times.

so can you guys see that im doing anything wrong?

-----------

i record at low latency, watching for clipping.

i then do a rough mix with no plugs.

then i do any overdubs with no plugs, through a real amp and a mic. or a vox thru a vocal mic, with no plugs. until im finished tracking.

then i jack up the latency level to be able to get more performance out of my cpu, for more plugs.

and then i render and take it to wavelab.

then i burn it.

that's what im thinking ill do with this system. i can't figure any other way to do it. i thought about it all day. tested things. experimented. called mackie. still not much better.

i need a real experienced erson to come to me and set this shit up! hahaha!

i have come to realize that im pathetic.... help me.

[IIRs]

You're recording multi-track audio right? If thats all, you probably don't need low latency: this is only important when playing VSTis via MIDI, or playing a guitar through an amp sim.

[Lunch Money]

Lee,

I don't know what further advice to give you. My system is inferior to yours, but I track in realtime with plug-ins enabled all the time. It's all I do! I don't use high-latency plug-ins like SIR when recording in realtime, but that's about it. I don't use Amplitube, but I use Green Machine II and it never seems to have a noticeable delay on it.

I'm at a loss. I'd have to see your system, I guess. <chuckle>

In the meantime, if you're going to track without effects enabled, you might as well look into the direct monitoring capabilities of your Onyx, and use direct monitoring to hear the signal being tracked.

<shrug>

Weird.



If you were doing it in Pro Tools LE, you should be able to do it in Tracktion, so I just dunno whassap.