they have a new plug lined up with suite!!! They are on it! It's called Hexaline!
http://www.mackie.com/products/tracktion2/index.html
Sidhu
New plug in the bundle ppl!!
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- KVRian
- 1372 posts since 22 Sep, 2003 from New Delhi, India
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- KVRAF
- 1615 posts since 28 Mar, 2005
freeware ):
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Yep, we've already been aware of this one. 
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- KVRist
- 199 posts since 12 Apr, 2005
I guess Hexaline was in that list before. But please let me use this thread to ask for your advice. I am new here, please be kind. And excuse my English 
This topic is directly connected to the "problem" that I am working on since about 2 weeks: Which are the most realistic/natural sounding VSTi's to set up a perfect virtual band?
Well, the good news first: Since I discovered Tracktion, my love for making music is back! I use Tracktion to make good old "songwriter music", R'n'B, Jazzrock (the type you would play with a normal 5-person band and acoustic instruments). Been composing music for 20 years, wrote music for others, played in 3 bands, played 5 instruments, sang, and taught drums. I began my homerecording career with those old Fostex (aw...) and Tandberg machines, then later moved into digital solutions such as Cubase - which was actually the reason why I stopped recording my own music. Because the thousands of technical possibilities in every single second of the creative process, they all ruined the natural flow of making music. Even though I am a programmer and like complexity, for music the software should be somehow in the background, but when I worked with overfeatured packages like N-Track, Sonar, and finally Cubase, it went the wrong way round: The *music* moved into the background. In other words, when I make music I want to be able to concentrate on all the stuff I hear, not the impressive stuff I see on a screen (I'll never quite understand why VSTi's have such great GUI's when all I need them for is to make sounds). To explain my perception a bit more: I have musician friends who are equipped with a gazillion of sound banks and samples plus at least 50 different VSTi's - these friends think it gives them ten thousand instruments to play and they command the biggest orchestra on earth. But what do they produce? Extremely impressive sounding tunes with all the hottest effects in them, but not a SINGLE real idea. And I have other friends who have only three (real) instruments, like 2 guitars and a small Jazz drumset and what do they produce? Beautiful ideas. Songs that will last in your heart. It seems that a limited choice is the key to the creation of any truly great composition. This is only my personal viewpoint as a guy who is around 40 and has gotten to know many musicians and other creative and determined people in his life. I simply think that an uber-cool digital sound effect or an impressive synth sound is technically cool for a few seconds alright - but will you remember it - like you remember a good and heartfelt song? I once collaborated on a project with a 20-year old British guy who produced Techno and Ambient dance in our country. He hardly even knew who the Beatles were, he never played a real instrument, but oh yea, he had thousands of instruments in his DJ setup. I was not impressed and when I look at the new VSTi's as they come out and am told how many different instruments you can "make" with them, I am still not impressed. Techno is cool, of course it is. But when it comes to interacting with music, I prefer the natural sound of instruments. I still love many of the songs from the Eighties - and also the general sound of these songs! Call me boring, but this is what I like. When I was younger, I spent actually weeks working on one single snare drum sample and months on the "perfect" natural-sounding drum kit.Today I can simply buy or download a VSTi.
But here comes my little problem. I don't need VSTi's to experiment. I want my Tracktion setup in a way that I can turn it on and make music, knowing I have a combination of VSTi instruments that sounds like a real group of musicians. For my type of music composition, I need the perfect "virtual band" which consists of a minimum number of VSTi's: Only one perfect acoustic drum kit, only one perfect Precision bass guitar, only one perfect piano, and one perfect guitar module (acoustic and electric). That's all I need. Like in a real band: Each member has only ONE instrument. The piano player in a real band does not have hundreds of pianos, he only has one. Of course it's nice to adapt the sound to the tune, but that can be done during mixing and mastering. I only want one piano module, but the perfect one, and then let me go on with making music. Boy, I have downloaded and bought so many VSTi's, sample modules and soundfonts in the last weeks, I am getting frustrated. In most cases, it was NOT what I wanted. Take the bass guitar, for example. What I need is only one great sounding bass - period. No thanks, I really do not need 15 other sound banks, synth basses and some extra gun shots and dog barks in the same module for free. I want to have it compact, that is a reason why I choose Tracktion. In the case of the bass module, I checked out most VSTi's on KVR, as well as the so-called "best" soundfonts and sample libraries.
And that's where my second problem comes in: If I only use the bass module (e.g. Slayer 2 or Broomstick), it sounds okay. But if I use it in combination with the other VST instruments (like e.g. in a Blues band setup with a drummer, piano player etc.), the same VSTi does no longer sound realistic together with the others. So the solo sound of a VSTi is convincing, but put them together and the listeners will know that it's NOT a real band.
So, in short, my situation is like recruiting real band members for a band, because every musician will sound different (solo and together with the band): I am trying to find the perfect combination of VSTi's for a virtual band that sounds LIKE A BAND.
After having played with various VSTi combinations for many nights, my results are not satisfying. Because when combined, the instruments do not sound real anymore. The only thing I now know for sure is that the "PSP VintageWarmer" does a superb job in making the mix sound extremely alive, far more professional, and more open. So I have the VintageWarmer in my stereo mix, active all the time, at the "Mix First Aid 2" position. And in a perfect world, this little plugin would even be implemented as a standard in T2 - while the 'FinalMix' plugin does great things as well, but it does not add any "life" to the overall sound and most of its functions can be covered by the built-in compressors and EQ's. So in short, I have this part of my problem covered, and the overall sound mix is acceptable now, thanks to VintageWarmer.
But not yet the instruments. Even with Tracktion and VSTi's, I need my songs to sound acoustic, natural, and with a touch of "live" sound. People who listen to my stuff should never think "oh wow these sounds are cool" but they should think "alright that's a normal band playing in a club, and all I actually hear is the composition".
But which VSTi's sound like "normal instruments"?
Maybe someone here can help me make the right decisions, because like most of you, I spend many hundred hours with my software and instruments (both VSTi and real instruments). My mission is simple, and I try to get it accomplished before T2 is finally released with all its great plugins: I am trying to find the perfect combination of naturally-sounding VST instruments, which, when played in combination as in a band setup, sound natural, convincing, and great.
Until now. I have the following selection in my mind (money is not the issue, but it must be compact)
- The two instruments of the piano player in my "perfect virtual band": Steinberg The Grand, and NI Elektrik Piano
- The one instrument of the bass player: Steinberg Virtual Bassist (have not tried that yet, and some Steinberg plugins only sound good when played alone but not in a combination!)
- The one instrument of the guitar player: Steinberg Virtual Guitarist
- The one drum kit of my virtual drummer: BFD (one of the acoustic kits).
You see... I am not sure what to do. I was hoping that one of you guys uses VSTi's and Tracktion for a similar style of songwriting work, and has more experience than me with VSTi's that sound real. What is the perfect combination?
It does not HAVE to be in the Steinberg category. Just any VSTi's that sound like real instruments when played together.
Thanks for any answer or expert advice from people who are more experienced than me. And please excuse my bad English, I am a Swiss
Thanks Jules and Mackie for Tracktion, and thanks for this forum! I can learn a lot here.
This topic is directly connected to the "problem" that I am working on since about 2 weeks: Which are the most realistic/natural sounding VSTi's to set up a perfect virtual band?
Well, the good news first: Since I discovered Tracktion, my love for making music is back! I use Tracktion to make good old "songwriter music", R'n'B, Jazzrock (the type you would play with a normal 5-person band and acoustic instruments). Been composing music for 20 years, wrote music for others, played in 3 bands, played 5 instruments, sang, and taught drums. I began my homerecording career with those old Fostex (aw...) and Tandberg machines, then later moved into digital solutions such as Cubase - which was actually the reason why I stopped recording my own music. Because the thousands of technical possibilities in every single second of the creative process, they all ruined the natural flow of making music. Even though I am a programmer and like complexity, for music the software should be somehow in the background, but when I worked with overfeatured packages like N-Track, Sonar, and finally Cubase, it went the wrong way round: The *music* moved into the background. In other words, when I make music I want to be able to concentrate on all the stuff I hear, not the impressive stuff I see on a screen (I'll never quite understand why VSTi's have such great GUI's when all I need them for is to make sounds). To explain my perception a bit more: I have musician friends who are equipped with a gazillion of sound banks and samples plus at least 50 different VSTi's - these friends think it gives them ten thousand instruments to play and they command the biggest orchestra on earth. But what do they produce? Extremely impressive sounding tunes with all the hottest effects in them, but not a SINGLE real idea. And I have other friends who have only three (real) instruments, like 2 guitars and a small Jazz drumset and what do they produce? Beautiful ideas. Songs that will last in your heart. It seems that a limited choice is the key to the creation of any truly great composition. This is only my personal viewpoint as a guy who is around 40 and has gotten to know many musicians and other creative and determined people in his life. I simply think that an uber-cool digital sound effect or an impressive synth sound is technically cool for a few seconds alright - but will you remember it - like you remember a good and heartfelt song? I once collaborated on a project with a 20-year old British guy who produced Techno and Ambient dance in our country. He hardly even knew who the Beatles were, he never played a real instrument, but oh yea, he had thousands of instruments in his DJ setup. I was not impressed and when I look at the new VSTi's as they come out and am told how many different instruments you can "make" with them, I am still not impressed. Techno is cool, of course it is. But when it comes to interacting with music, I prefer the natural sound of instruments. I still love many of the songs from the Eighties - and also the general sound of these songs! Call me boring, but this is what I like. When I was younger, I spent actually weeks working on one single snare drum sample and months on the "perfect" natural-sounding drum kit.Today I can simply buy or download a VSTi.
But here comes my little problem. I don't need VSTi's to experiment. I want my Tracktion setup in a way that I can turn it on and make music, knowing I have a combination of VSTi instruments that sounds like a real group of musicians. For my type of music composition, I need the perfect "virtual band" which consists of a minimum number of VSTi's: Only one perfect acoustic drum kit, only one perfect Precision bass guitar, only one perfect piano, and one perfect guitar module (acoustic and electric). That's all I need. Like in a real band: Each member has only ONE instrument. The piano player in a real band does not have hundreds of pianos, he only has one. Of course it's nice to adapt the sound to the tune, but that can be done during mixing and mastering. I only want one piano module, but the perfect one, and then let me go on with making music. Boy, I have downloaded and bought so many VSTi's, sample modules and soundfonts in the last weeks, I am getting frustrated. In most cases, it was NOT what I wanted. Take the bass guitar, for example. What I need is only one great sounding bass - period. No thanks, I really do not need 15 other sound banks, synth basses and some extra gun shots and dog barks in the same module for free. I want to have it compact, that is a reason why I choose Tracktion. In the case of the bass module, I checked out most VSTi's on KVR, as well as the so-called "best" soundfonts and sample libraries.
And that's where my second problem comes in: If I only use the bass module (e.g. Slayer 2 or Broomstick), it sounds okay. But if I use it in combination with the other VST instruments (like e.g. in a Blues band setup with a drummer, piano player etc.), the same VSTi does no longer sound realistic together with the others. So the solo sound of a VSTi is convincing, but put them together and the listeners will know that it's NOT a real band.
So, in short, my situation is like recruiting real band members for a band, because every musician will sound different (solo and together with the band): I am trying to find the perfect combination of VSTi's for a virtual band that sounds LIKE A BAND.
After having played with various VSTi combinations for many nights, my results are not satisfying. Because when combined, the instruments do not sound real anymore. The only thing I now know for sure is that the "PSP VintageWarmer" does a superb job in making the mix sound extremely alive, far more professional, and more open. So I have the VintageWarmer in my stereo mix, active all the time, at the "Mix First Aid 2" position. And in a perfect world, this little plugin would even be implemented as a standard in T2 - while the 'FinalMix' plugin does great things as well, but it does not add any "life" to the overall sound and most of its functions can be covered by the built-in compressors and EQ's. So in short, I have this part of my problem covered, and the overall sound mix is acceptable now, thanks to VintageWarmer.
But not yet the instruments. Even with Tracktion and VSTi's, I need my songs to sound acoustic, natural, and with a touch of "live" sound. People who listen to my stuff should never think "oh wow these sounds are cool" but they should think "alright that's a normal band playing in a club, and all I actually hear is the composition".
But which VSTi's sound like "normal instruments"?
Maybe someone here can help me make the right decisions, because like most of you, I spend many hundred hours with my software and instruments (both VSTi and real instruments). My mission is simple, and I try to get it accomplished before T2 is finally released with all its great plugins: I am trying to find the perfect combination of naturally-sounding VST instruments, which, when played in combination as in a band setup, sound natural, convincing, and great.
Until now. I have the following selection in my mind (money is not the issue, but it must be compact)
- The two instruments of the piano player in my "perfect virtual band": Steinberg The Grand, and NI Elektrik Piano
- The one instrument of the bass player: Steinberg Virtual Bassist (have not tried that yet, and some Steinberg plugins only sound good when played alone but not in a combination!)
- The one instrument of the guitar player: Steinberg Virtual Guitarist
- The one drum kit of my virtual drummer: BFD (one of the acoustic kits).
You see... I am not sure what to do. I was hoping that one of you guys uses VSTi's and Tracktion for a similar style of songwriting work, and has more experience than me with VSTi's that sound real. What is the perfect combination?
It does not HAVE to be in the Steinberg category. Just any VSTi's that sound like real instruments when played together.
Thanks for any answer or expert advice from people who are more experienced than me. And please excuse my bad English, I am a Swiss
Thanks Jules and Mackie for Tracktion, and thanks for this forum! I can learn a lot here.
Last edited by sonicsmurf on Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:20 am, edited 3 times in total.
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- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
Dunno about the rest, but for realistic bass sounds (especially upright) i've heard stuff done with trilogy - & it is the shit when using the true staccatto patches.
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- KVRist
- 199 posts since 12 Apr, 2005
Thank you, diverdee! I will check Trilogy out right now (it's 3 o'clock in the morning here
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- KVRAF
- 3745 posts since 29 Sep, 2002 from Killafornia
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/487.htmlsidhu wrote:they have a new plug lined up with suite!!! They are on it! It's called Hexaline!
http://www.mackie.com/products/tracktion2/index.html
Sidhu
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- KVRAF
- 2750 posts since 2 Feb, 2005 from Raincoast of Grayland
You do realize that the perfect 'virtual' bass player, will eat most of your CPU, empty your fridge, play out of tune during the chorus, and have spontaneous artistic spats with your 'virtual' drummer? 
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I don't think that's a realistic approach, but I know what you mean-- I wouldn't want just 'one' perfect instrument of each, but I would like to have a limited selection of reliable sounds. For example, a good upright bass, a good jazz bass, a good fretless electric bass. I don't need 5 different "P-bass / J-bass" soundfonts, that's for sure.
If you get something like Trilogy, you have your 'one' solution and you can leave it in 'always on' mode, but if by some chance you need an upright, it's there for you.
For piano, the Grand is long in the tooth. Look at the offerings by PMI instead.
For guitar, I can never with good conscience recommend a virtual guitar VST. Better to collaborate with someone over the net or get a friend to come in and do it. Also free, if you meet the right people.
BFD is the right choice for drums, and if you do decide you need to change your kit up, there's the option.
Greg
If you get something like Trilogy, you have your 'one' solution and you can leave it in 'always on' mode, but if by some chance you need an upright, it's there for you.
For piano, the Grand is long in the tooth. Look at the offerings by PMI instead.
For guitar, I can never with good conscience recommend a virtual guitar VST. Better to collaborate with someone over the net or get a friend to come in and do it.
Also free, if you meet the right people.BFD is the right choice for drums, and if you do decide you need to change your kit up, there's the option.
Greg
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- KVRist
- 199 posts since 12 Apr, 2005
mandolarian wrote:You do realize that the perfect 'virtual' bass player, will eat most of your CPU, empty your fridge, play out of tune during the chorus, and have spontaneous artistic spats with your 'virtual' drummer?
Yup, I do realize all of that. But mind you, if they would make a virtual bass player so realistic you smell his old socks when turning on the VST, I would also expect them to develop a female drummer that is so realistic that she will fill up my fridge while playing
Last edited by sonicsmurf on Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 2750 posts since 2 Feb, 2005 from Raincoast of Grayland
Now that you mention it. If you get a 'virtual' bass player, shouldn't he bring his own 'virtual' instrument? Problem solved!
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- KVRian
- 1112 posts since 17 Jul, 2003 from Kauai, HI
Sonicsmurf said:
Over at Sonic Reality (the SampleTank guys), Squids has mentioned a new product--not yet released--that is intended to form the perfect live five-man band sound. For the life of me I can't remember what it's called but if you thumb through the threads there, you'll find it. I'm interested to see how it turns out.
And welcome to KvR!
Tom
Yeah, let's face it, your English sux...(you speak it twice as better than the rest of us, making us look stupid)I am new here, please be kind. And excuse my English
Over at Sonic Reality (the SampleTank guys), Squids has mentioned a new product--not yet released--that is intended to form the perfect live five-man band sound. For the life of me I can't remember what it's called but if you thumb through the threads there, you'll find it. I'm interested to see how it turns out.
And welcome to KvR!
Tom