Which he is.platinumears wrote:...or playing a guitar through an amp sim.
dear sirs and madams
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1820 posts since 28 Mar, 2005
well, i actually got it down to a level that is going to have to do for now. im too tired of fooling with it.
you know, it's happening when i dont have any plugins as well. just a minute little delay from the time i pluck the string until the time i can hear it int the headphones. its annoying at worst.
ill just have to demonstrate to the guitarist or whoever is tracking at the time that it can be fixed and nudged or compensated for. and by the time i do another band, ill have this all figured out anyway. so im not gonna stress it.
the mackie guy said the system should be able to do just fine. and he walked me through and we got to the point that i was getting as little latency as possible, and he had no other things that we could do to the system to get it to be any less than what we got it down to. it took like five minutes on the phone. no biggie. most of the stuff he was telling me to do, i had already done. optimization, not going through the main mix, all of that stuff. going from the controlroom outs. latency set all the way down to the least possible. all of that. so the lowest i got it to was 1.6ms.
but i can't track a whole band live and then have a guitarist come in and track another guitar overtop of 16 channels of audio at 1.6ms. i guess i could, but i'd have to disable everything... i don't know. i may have to do a free job and try everything out, and tell them im gonna be experiementing on their project.
i'ts the only way im gonna know for sure, and be able to get reactions out of the musicians, and learn to deal with their reaction to the delay. beacuse im stuck with this system for at least a year, maybe longer...
that's not too bad though. maybe ill be able to upgrade the puter in that time and ill get everything sorted. maybe ill be upgraded o SOMEthing that will make a difference...
hey! thanks for listening to my stupid problem!
you know, it's happening when i dont have any plugins as well. just a minute little delay from the time i pluck the string until the time i can hear it int the headphones. its annoying at worst.
ill just have to demonstrate to the guitarist or whoever is tracking at the time that it can be fixed and nudged or compensated for. and by the time i do another band, ill have this all figured out anyway. so im not gonna stress it.
the mackie guy said the system should be able to do just fine. and he walked me through and we got to the point that i was getting as little latency as possible, and he had no other things that we could do to the system to get it to be any less than what we got it down to. it took like five minutes on the phone. no biggie. most of the stuff he was telling me to do, i had already done. optimization, not going through the main mix, all of that stuff. going from the controlroom outs. latency set all the way down to the least possible. all of that. so the lowest i got it to was 1.6ms.
but i can't track a whole band live and then have a guitarist come in and track another guitar overtop of 16 channels of audio at 1.6ms. i guess i could, but i'd have to disable everything... i don't know. i may have to do a free job and try everything out, and tell them im gonna be experiementing on their project.
i'ts the only way im gonna know for sure, and be able to get reactions out of the musicians, and learn to deal with their reaction to the delay. beacuse im stuck with this system for at least a year, maybe longer...
that's not too bad though. maybe ill be able to upgrade the puter in that time and ill get everything sorted. maybe ill be upgraded o SOMEthing that will make a difference...
hey! thanks for listening to my stupid problem!
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1820 posts since 28 Mar, 2005
wait... while i was in the shitter, getting ready for bed, i was thinking....
couldn't i just freeze all of the tracks that i wasn't using at the time of overdubbing and get better performance out of the cpu and maybe get less latency that way? if so, i could just unfreeze everything and be good to go for mixdown after the overdubs.
hooah?!?!?
couldn't i just freeze all of the tracks that i wasn't using at the time of overdubbing and get better performance out of the cpu and maybe get less latency that way? if so, i could just unfreeze everything and be good to go for mixdown after the overdubs.
hooah?!?!?
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Your latency will still be whatever you set it for; however-- by freezing all those tracks, you WILL reclaim CPU and HDD resources, so it will make setting lower latencies without cracks and pops and glitches possible.
Greg
Greg
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- KVRian
- 581 posts since 8 Dec, 2004
Truly, the throne of contemplation guides another supplicant
Inspiration strikes when you least expect it- I remember being stuck on a level of Lemmings, lying down listening to Beethoven and 5 minutes later the solution to the whole level appeared in my head
And I'm always at work when I get musical ideas; I'm going to get a dictaphone so I can at least nip into a storeroom and record whatever is sluicing through my skull.
Inspiration strikes when you least expect it- I remember being stuck on a level of Lemmings, lying down listening to Beethoven and 5 minutes later the solution to the whole level appeared in my head
And I'm always at work when I get musical ideas; I'm going to get a dictaphone so I can at least nip into a storeroom and record whatever is sluicing through my skull.Coffee please, black, no sugar.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1820 posts since 28 Mar, 2005
Lunch Money wrote:Your latency will still be whatever you set it for; however-- by freezing all those tracks, you WILL reclaim CPU and HDD resources, so it will make setting lower latencies without cracks and pops and glitches possible.
Greg
very good! im good to go now i guess. if i can get the latency down w/o glitches, ill be able to go low low low and all is good. ill experiment... work tomorrow, so late tmrrw night or sunday
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- KVRAF
- 2009 posts since 9 Apr, 2003 from Cornwall, UK
how do the pros cope? 1.5ms is the lowest you can go. At least you know your in good company with the whole of the professional digital recording industry.
personally i don't think you can hear 1.5ms latency which makes me think you have a different problem (or I'm understanding things wrongly).
personally i don't think you can hear 1.5ms latency which makes me think you have a different problem (or I'm understanding things wrongly).
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Even 6ms, I can't hear. But that's just me. Other guitarists around have indicated that they notice 6ms, so I guess I'll believe it's possible. If you can get down to even 3ms (instead of squeezing yourself into 1.5!) I'm quite positive you won't be able to hear it.
If you still hear a slapback at 3ms, it's time to trouble-shoot again.
Greg
If you still hear a slapback at 3ms, it's time to trouble-shoot again.
Greg
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- KVRist
- 336 posts since 21 Aug, 2004 from UK
I think us guitarists sometimes pick up on small latency issues easily (although not sure I'd be put off by 6ms) - particularly if the player in question is used to valve amps - the immediacy of a constant current device hanging off the end of your instrument cable becomes second nature and anything else is sometimes 'felt' and anything remotely audible becomes "gaaarrrgh!" - we are sensitive flowers at heart
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I'm a guitarist!
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- KVRAF
- 1615 posts since 28 Mar, 2005
I read somewhere a paper where these experimenters found that as they introduced delay into monitoring (latency) that people started to have strouble speaking and lose sync (they were studying it with talking). Why not use the best system available: zero-latency monitoring and screw the amp sim or use an analog hardware device ie and amp or a sans amp...
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I want one of those Behringer SansAmp rip-offs... wonder if they're available here yet...
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1820 posts since 28 Mar, 2005
lunch,
you're so right. i really need to just use the client's amp and forget about trying to do anything other than that. it just makes good sense. i just thought i could shortcut and use amplitube, and i guess it's just not going to be like the real thing.
amplitube could be useful for DI signals at some point, im sure, but for overdubbing onto a live recording or just multitracking one at a time, i should stay with a 57 and a real amp.
...sigh... sometimes i beat dead horses.
actually, i do have it at 1.5 or whatever i said, maybe 1.6ms? i forget, but i still hear a slight, but doable delay. nothing that i couldn't live with. but i do notice it. and it does make the recorded guitar sound like it has a little tiny delay in the signal when monitoring. about the same amount of delay that happens when you use a chorus effect, but without the chorus, just the little delay. and when i bend a note, it choruses a little bit...if that makes sense... it gets a little phasey when i do bends.. maybe that's a little better an explanation of what im getting.
im sure you guys are sick of this thread.
thanks for all the patience. it's nice to see that you care.
you're so right. i really need to just use the client's amp and forget about trying to do anything other than that. it just makes good sense. i just thought i could shortcut and use amplitube, and i guess it's just not going to be like the real thing.
amplitube could be useful for DI signals at some point, im sure, but for overdubbing onto a live recording or just multitracking one at a time, i should stay with a 57 and a real amp.
...sigh... sometimes i beat dead horses.
actually, i do have it at 1.5 or whatever i said, maybe 1.6ms? i forget, but i still hear a slight, but doable delay. nothing that i couldn't live with. but i do notice it. and it does make the recorded guitar sound like it has a little tiny delay in the signal when monitoring. about the same amount of delay that happens when you use a chorus effect, but without the chorus, just the little delay. and when i bend a note, it choruses a little bit...if that makes sense... it gets a little phasey when i do bends.. maybe that's a little better an explanation of what im getting.
im sure you guys are sick of this thread.
thanks for all the patience. it's nice to see that you care.
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- KVRAF
- 6490 posts since 14 Jun, 2004 from Rochester, NY
I record with my 500 mhz laptop at 16ms and its fine. No one complains. On my a64 3000+ desktop i record at 2.5ms... im not sure what the problem is, man! 
It sounds like the delay is coming from something else... Not sure. It just doesnt sound right. Just makes me glad I got a presonus firepod
It sounds like the delay is coming from something else... Not sure. It just doesnt sound right. Just makes me glad I got a presonus firepod