Adobe to buy Macromedia for $3.4 billion

[nocompromise]

nocompromise quoth
@whyterabbyt Why should they make profits? If everything everyone did was for the good of all they wouldn't need profits.......

That's a very big if, which completely ignores the reality of human, and all other, existence. Global altruism is not just unlikely, its impossible.

FFS Why?
We (humanity) have the capacity to change and learn. Don't you?
And if this is the way its gotta be why bother letting me in on the secret? I'm already lost to your capitalist me me me cause. I believe the world can be a better place.

[CypherOne]

I believe the world 'could' be a better place, I don't however think it 'will' be.

[nocompromise]

Then thats sad.
I wish you had more optimism.

[CypherOne]

well maybe. I think of it as being realistic though, to save me from disappointment. I think it's good that you want to make the world a better place, it's a bloody big job.

[spaceman]

nocompromise quoth
@whyterabbyt Why should they make profits? If everything everyone did was for the good of all they wouldn't need profits.......

That's a very big if, which completely ignores the reality of human, and all other, existence. Global altruism is not just unlikely, its impossible.

FFS Why?
We (humanity) have the capacity to change and learn. Don't you?
And if this is the way its gotta be why bother letting me in on the secret? I'm already lost to your capitalist me me me cause. I believe the world can be a better place.

pure altruism doesn't work as a strategy for genetic survival.. the math just doesn't work, not in our present situation

[whyterabbyt]

nocompromise quoth

FFS Why?

Because its true.

We (humanity) have the capacity to change and learn.

So? That doesnt mean that they will, or even want to.

Don't you?

Are you making the (dumb) assumption that I havent already? Or just made the (dumber) assumption that everybody is going to 'change and learn' according to your worldview?


And if this is the way its gotta be why bother letting me in on the secret?

'Gotta' ? Well, yeah, without eradicating 95% of the worl's population and only leaving the altruists, idealists, hippies and happy nutjobs, then yeah, thats 'gotta' be. Of course the hippes, altruists and idealists will all start fighting about how best to live in their world of sunshine and happiness almost straight away, but hey, thats intrinsic human nature for you.



I'm already lost to your capitalist me me me cause.

More dumbshit nonsense. Cant handle someone disagreeing with you without accusing them of being 'the enemy'. Petulant chilidsh crap, and just as blinkered and short-sighted as you're (craply) trying to insinuate I am.


Im not a capitalistm, just FYI. I'm an anarchist.

I believe the world can be a better place.

Lucky you. However I have no belief whatsoever that someone who makes so many snide little attempts to malign someone else, for simply not agreeing with them, shares my idea of what that 'better place' actually should be.

[headquest]

If somebody eyes up my bird, I'll punch his lights out. Simple as that.

[BONES]

The buggers'll be looking for a 3D company next. Betcha.

They've had the opportunity in the past and not done it when MetaCreations were selling off their products. Corel got Bryce and some other mob got Carrara, ex-RayDream Studio. Unless MetaCreations refused to sell to them or something, who knows? And Alias was recently on the market for a paltry 40-odd million.

Isn't Microsoft the biggest company in the world?

And what do they sell?
Software

Who do they give money to?
Bush

And Apple and Corel and plenty of other so-called competitors. Plus they provide computer access for the disadvantaged all over the world and Bill Gates personally has donated billions of dollars, yes billions, to charities. And he has stated that he will only leave his kids $20million, yes "only", the rest will go to charities.

While Adobe buy Macromedia, we're still occupying Iraq and there are still people dying all over the world.......

Are you saying that its bad for one country to invade another to free the populace from an oppressive regime that has killed tens of thousands of its own citizens? And people wonder what's wrong with the world.

i think freehand will be killed; fireworks will get an adobe makeover and be even more tightly web-orientated. i don't think photoshop or illustrator will change at all. maybe adobe will kill their own weak flash-wannabe, and perhaps even drop go-live in favour of fireworks.

Freehand is very much a standard in a lot of areas. e.g. It is an absolute standard in the advertising industry in Australia. I think it will be maintained with Illustrator. But no-one uses Fireworks do they? I can't remember the last time I even saw it anywhere. Go-Live was just another aquisition, like almost all of their products at one time or another, so it could easily be dumped.
Where Adobe will probably reap the biggest rewards are in the back-end stuff like Cold Fusion and Action Script and that stuff.

The last centuries have seen a succesful struggle or more rights, democracy and social justice.

Only in certain parts of the world. I don't think the Kurds or Rwandans would have felt much of it. Nor the people of Saudi Arabia or Palestine. And North Korea is right out. But of course, if it doesn't directly affect you, you shouldn't try to change it.

- corporations don't have a use for everyone anymore, as in the days of the industrial revolution.
they employ who they have to employ to stay in business, they don't care at all for all the others.

What about the people they need to pay them money in return for the goods they make? Which is the point I think Whyterabbit was trying to make.

- Who's boss in the White House? Bush...
Who paid his campaign?

I would have thought that you'd be happy that Bush wasn't actually making the decisions. I know I am.

@whyterabbyt Why should they make profits? If everything everyone did was for the good of all they wouldn't need profits.......

So their shareholders can eat and buy software? If you want in, buy some shares.

[nocompromise]

If somebody eyes up my bird, I'll punch his lights out. Simple as that.

yeah i can imagine. thats a real problem

[headquest]

If somebody eyes up my bird, I'll punch his lights out. Simple as that.

yeah i can imagine. thats a real problem

I was being ironic to illustrate a point! Namely, that it is not in people's nature to be altruistic... when it comes to personally paying the price. Even many "left-wing activists" think twice when it comes to suffering loss themselves.

Regarding corporations, I think I understand in part where you guys are coming from. My wife and I are *trying* to switch supermarkets at the moment (the largest one here is unfair in its dealings with its suppliers, especially fresh produce). It turns out to be harder to change supermarket than initially meets the eye... you need to "learn" a while new set of brands, change store card, find somewhere different to park, learn the layout of the store and rethink your strategy for getting the whole boring job done...etc. In a rather pathetic way, I guess that illustrates your point!

[cptgone]

I would have thought that you'd be happy that Bush wasn't actually making the decisions. I know I am.

Bush is elected, corporations aren't - yet they are the ones in control.

It's much easier to start a dictatorship (or oligarchy) then it is to get rid of one.

- corporations don't have a use for everyone anymore, as in the days of the industrial revolution.
they employ who they have to employ to stay in business, they don't care at all for all the others.

What about the people they need to pay them money in return for the goods they make? Which is the point I think Whyterabbit was trying to make.

- Like I said... the corp's themselves admit they don't do any planning > 5 years ahead.
- Also, there are many corps, hence distributed responsibility.
- Thirdly, they will keep employing who they can use, and that's an ever smaller part of the populace.

This is like saying, Hitler doesn't want war because dead soldiers are no good to him.

[nocompromise]

Im not a capitalistm, just FYI. I'm an anarchist.

i realised that but you missed the point. i'll try from your point of view.
As an anarchist, shouldn't you be doing any and everything to achieve anarchy? I guess it doesn't work like that?
Perhaps you should agree with any and everything that might bring that about?
With that in mind, what does it matter to you how its achieved? It could be cos capitalism simply implodes as every society in history has. Or it could be cos of altruism. Or whatever.
Getting touchy about what i type isn't getting u there either mind you.

[headquest]

This is like saying, Hitler doesn't want war because dead soldiers are no good to him.

Hitler probably didn't "want war". But what he DID want led to a war...
... and dead soldiers were no good to him.

So I think your illustration rather proves the point that it is dangerous to over-simplify complex issues, if you are really concerned to get to the truth...

[nocompromise]

I was being ironic to illustrate a point!

Namely, that it is not in people's nature to be altruistic... when it comes to personally paying the price. Even many "left-wing activists" think twice when it comes to suffering loss themselves.

oh ok. there are unfortunately a lot of people (here) that think this is ok

..... My wife and I are *trying* to switch supermarkets at the moment (the largest one here is unfair in its dealings with its suppliers, especially fresh produce). It turns out to be harder to change supermarket than initially meets the eye... you need to "learn" a while new set of brands, change store card, find somewhere different to park, learn the layout of the store and rethink your strategy for getting the whole boring job done...etc. In a rather pathetic way, I guess that illustrates your point!

Yes it does. We are left with the choices and problems that shouldn't have anything to do with us.
We see stuff on TV that makes us feel guilty about 3rd world debt or aids or whatever. So we have to fork out to feel good in ourselves.

[cptgone]

This is like saying, Hitler doesn't want war because dead soldiers are no good to him.

Hitler probably didn't "want war".

Oh yes he did - it's in "Mein Kampf": war on the jews and the communists... War was an ethical value to the nazi's.