All right now "FREE"

[titanium]

I tried to hold back commenting on this, but I gotta admit, I'm completely unimpressed with the OP's track. Not only is the sound not realistic, the notes and rhythm are all wrong. I honestly don't see how any of you people think it sounds "okay". Sounds a lot like BIAB to me.

Also, I listened to/watched the RealGuitar demos, only one was anywhere near convincing: the acoustic blues strum. All others were stomach-turning cheezy. Especially the so-called "slider", blecchh.

My advice to all you would-be VST guitarists out there: FORGET IT, IT CAN'T BE DONE. If you want real guitar sounds, then hire a guitarist. Even an beginner/inexperienced guitarist can be taught the correct part (from your synth parts), or you can sample their lines and patch it together. Either of those approaches would sound better than all this artificial synthetic shit. Unless, of course, you want your music to sound like artificial synthetic shit, in which case, fine, who gives a f**k, anything goes.

I don't feel quite as strongly about sampled drums. I think they can be done reasonably convincingly in the context of some styles. The drums themselves are easy, with a sufficiently deep multi-sampler and a good understanding of how drums are played in a given style (silly details like 'taste' 'pocket' 'groove' 'push' etc). Cymbals/hihats, are the hardest, of course. Some people use sampled drum loops along with a variety of cymbal/hihat variations to get the right "feel".

The thing is, by the time you have crafted a convincing drum part, whether with MIDI or with loops/breaks, you've spent many, many hours tweaking. For the cost of your time spent (replacement cost+ opportunity cost), you probably could have had a real live studio drummer.

In summary, if you want your music to sound like "real" instruments, then hire real players. Then you can focus on being a great keyboardist/writer/arranger/producer/engineer/etc.

[sonicsmurf]

Also, I listened to/watched the RealGuitar demos, only one was anywhere near convincing: the acoustic blues strum. All others were stomach-turning cheezy. Especially the so-called "slider", blecchh.

True, actually. I would add one more demo to be in the "rather realistic" sector, but I agree on the rest. I also agree on your comments about sampled drums and how to make them sound realistic, cymbals and so on, because this happens to be one field I am especially experienced in. And I liked your advice about drum track replacement, I gave the same advice (and a link to such a service) in another thread yesterday.

But I try to keep in mind one thing. In here there are totally *different musicians* with different skill levels and goals and needs. What makes a hobby musician happy may appear ridiculous to a pro - and the other way round. But: What is possible for some is not possible for others. I try to keep that in mind.

In summary, if you want your music to sound like "real" instruments, then hire real players.

Is this your advice? To "forget" all the virtual instruments discussed here? But... my living room studio would be pretty crowded with so many people!

[parky]

Daniel I know a virtual instrument for that: "RealGuitar" by Musiclab. It is very special.

You want to play chorus and solo? So you watch the demo *videos* here and see what the RealGuitar can do: http://www.musiclab.com/downloads/listen

OK, I'm confused. Isn't RG for acoustic guitar, nylon and steel string? The demoes on that link indicate that they are acoustic guitar.

Putting a steel string acoustic guitar vsti through a fuzz box does not make it an electric guitar like a Les Paul, SG, Strat etc.

[sonicsmurf]

Isn't RG for acoustic guitar, nylon and steel string? The demoes on that link indicate that they are acoustic guitar.

At first sight, yes. But then you find testimonials like "I know that it's just an acoustic guitar, but I've also been treating it like an electric one. I put a few amps on some of the chords, and it sounded like Linkin' Park". (and more...)

Putting a steel string acoustic guitar vsti through a fuzz box does not make it an electric guitar like a Les Paul, SG, Strat etc.

Yes, any musician would probably confirm that. Some results are far away from real guitars, some are at least "close" - in such cases it's usually the method of playing that made the difference.
I guess the question was whether virtual instruments can "simulate" guitars, so I posted the link to RealGuitar because they show you a concept of playing in a special way. The videos looked funny to me first, but the combination of their keyboard-splits and special playing made sense.

So what is there for electric guitar simulation (-- which apparently is a hopeless attempt anyway)??
I already checked out "Slayer" and "Revitar" and some sample banks and was always disappointed. But maybe the Steinberg "Virtual Guitarist Electric Edition" offers more realism for those who make Rock music: [FEATURES] and AUDIO DEMOS (better avoid the "Disco" demo... but the third tune is not bad)

[titanium]

But I try to keep in mind one thing. In here there are totally *different musicians* with different skill levels and goals and needs. What makes a hobby musician happy may appear ridiculous to a pro - and the other way round. But: What is possible for some is not possible for others. I try to keep that in mind.

Understood. But hobbyists that would spend $100s of dollars on software, and 100s of hours trying to attain something that is unreachable, should rightly be disabused of such notions by people who know better than to bother with it.

"In summary, if you want your music to sound like "real" instruments, then hire real players."

Is this your advice? To "forget" all the virtual instruments discussed here? But... my living room studio would be pretty crowded with so many people.

Well of course not....the huge world of VSTs gives us an amazing and wonderful pallete to work with. But when the call goes out for "realistic" guitar, blues harmonica, or what have you, it takes a real musician and a real instrument.

[sonicsmurf]

I get your point. One comment though:
"and 100s of hours trying to attain something that is unreachable"

who judges or qualifies that? How many things do we do, knowing it will never be perfect? But we still enjoy the challenge -

If a guy tries to "make" guitars, drums, and even complete string sections in his bedroom without even having ever touched such instruments - it may seem pointless from a more music-aware perspective of a real musician. But to defend this: If all the friends of this hobbyist come over, and he "shows" them his new creations, and they all go WOW and are genuinely impressed and even entertained... then who cares if it sounds perfect? It's a different story if you try to market your music and try to make a living with it. But for the hobbyists?
Music, in one form or another, played via keyboard or physical instruments, should bring some fun and enjoyment to us humans. I am just saying that this can be done in different ways. - Me? I do play real instruments and have done so for more than 20 years, but I also like to work with virtual ones and try to make them sound real. I like to be in the sonic world and interact with it. Will a VSTi ever be perfect? Of course not. But it's still enjoyable. I personally find it interesting to see these things getting closer to reality.

[lharless]

so does all of this mean that i get shot in the nutsack?

[Daniel Pompougnac]

Bad english language.

Titanium write :

My advice to all you would-be VST guitarists out there: FORGET IT, IT CAN'T BE DONE. If you want real guitar sounds, then hire a guitarist.

I play electric and acoustic guitar since... 1976 ! (wow, years !).
I've all played (Zep', Yes, Genesis, AC/DC, Jazz, classical guitar, etc.).

I know you're right.
But my problem is not to say that guitars can't be reproduced, but to help other musicians who don't have a friend guitarist.
Create pieces of music is a great thing. So, I'm a violonist and I play only violon ? Stupid and elitist.
Bach or Wagner didn't know to play all instruments. If they had tried a sequencer, I think they would be happy.

My problem is not to listen a guy say : "don't try to penetrate in a world that isn't your world !", but to improve a virtual sound.

You have helped me saying that the sound is bad. OK. I must improve.
You say that ther's no solution. You don't interest me.
Sorry.

Daniel.