T2 available, including upgrade version. NOT a joke thread.

[M'Snah]

Indeed well put Greg.

- However, the catch-22 was that there are existing T1 users that Mackie/RMS did not want to screw. Therefore, they've offered them this very attractive upgrade option. Frankly, I think the generousity is staggering. This way, existing T1 purchasers of ALL persuasions are being accomodated and nobody's being left behind.

... even Jens and I

[Lunch Money]

Much to my chagrin.

[jens]

You know I'd stay around anyway!

[thoshu]

why would nfr users be able to upgrade

RonC

why wouldn't you just be happy and stfu?

[jens]

why would nfr users be able to upgrade

RonC

why wouldn't you just be happy and stfu?

hm - maybe because it's Ron?

[Graeme]

Broadly speaking (in as much as the punter ever really knows what goes on in corporate minds) I think Lunch Money gave a balanced view of the current situation. However, I would like to expand upon one point;

The NFR version was *strictly* a promotional offer. It was meant to expose people to Tracktion and get people interested. This is marketing, which means that they were not giving it away with merely benevolence, though it was still generous and had no strings attached. However, the end goal was to try to get Tracktion out there and hopefully find a few potential T2 buyers as well.

I originally looked at T1 (long before Mackie got involved) and found it quirky and interesting, but of little use to me as a user of a hardware controller (a Yamaha 01x). So, it went on the back burner.

Later, Mackie got in on the act and I then heard about the NFR version. Obviously, such an offer was being made because a new version was about to be released and they were trying to drum up additional interest. I got the NFR version and looked more closely at it. Still not a lot of use to me personally, but I started to understand and appreciate the general concept (a zillion miles from CuBase and Sonar - my two applications of choice for multitrack work).

Knowing that Mackie are primarily in the hardware business, it didn't need a brain the size of a planet to imagine the next version would have some sort of hardware support. T2 arrived and now I'm very interested indeed - so much so, I've been sitting on my wallet, waiting for the official release day.

All this Mackie marketing stuff had me on the edge of my seat and dying to spend my money - just what they planned. Clever marketing? Yes, indeed - but there it stops.

Can I buy T2? Nope - no chance at all. No online download (confirmed in an email from Mackie). They tell me to go to my 'local' dealer and buy the box version (which is full of plug-ins I don't need). Here (in Spain) my local Mackie dealer is 700 Km away and when I 'phoned them, they knew nothing about T2 anyway.

Now, instead of a satisfied customer, Mackie have really upset me with their handling of the whole thing. They did their best to get me interested - and it worked - now, they have left me high and dry.

At $150 odd, a stripped down version (no plug-ins) would still be good value.... and I would pay that for it. My guesss is, there are many others here who would do the same.

Mackie marketing may be good, but their PR is lousy. They spend a lot of money (the NFR version) in order to interest people and then release a d/l demo version of the next release. However, there is no path to unlock this demo for some considerable time, despite the fact that most users probably decided to buy it within half an hour of trying it out.

They then compound the felony by not making any d/l access to either the new version, or a key to unlock the demo - finally rubbing salt into the wound by denying those outside the USA access by any route - electronic or physical.

... and before anyone says 'just order it from a USA retailer', do you know how many of these will not ship outside the US postal area? It can take ages, hunting around on the net, to find someone who will do this (although I expect this is what I am going to finally have to do).

Global market? - don't make me laugh.

[willowhaus]

I disagree with a couple of things, specifically this:

Giving NFR owners a special download package and price to reward their loyalty doesn't make sense, because there's no loyalty to reward.

That's not necessarily true. While we did not jump up & spend money on v.1, to say that NFR users have no loyalty is presumptuous & arrogant. I don't buy every bit of audio software that comes down the pipe - it would be nice, but you have to make choices. I've gotten behind many a great product & invested huge time, effort, and money in them, only to see them go away as the company folds for whatever reason.

Audio software is extremely competitive, with a lot of big dogs competing for a piece of what is a relatively small market, as software goes. And as such, a lot of people are like me - careful to choose where they get invested.

The Mackie name helps build some confidence, sure - but Mackie is a hardware company, not a software company. So - how do they build confidence in the product? By giving away free copies, thus growing the userbase; growing the number of people who start producing music with their software, and talking about doing so, so rather than people looking at T2 and saying "who uses THAT?!?" then more people will say "Hey - that's what so-and-so uses..."

The NFR offer was a smart move - not to drum up a small pool of potential buyers (how many NFRs are there, anyway?), but to widen the userbase.
It didn't take significant money away from possible T1 purchases, as few if any of us would have bought the software as it was, anyway. For instance, the lack of aux bussing makes it appear less useable to me than other packages out there - but after I started using it, I found workarounds. I enjoyed the environment enough to do that - but if I'd have had to pay for it, I would not have - because it is basically underdeveloped. (If it were not, you wouldn't buy T2 so fast, would you?)

Also to mention...some of us have been here, reporting bugs & making FR's, which is also a contribution to the effort. So to say that we haven't any "loyalty" is B.S.

I never asked for a $20 upgrade - it's understandable why early purchasers would be more entitled to that. However, it would be nice to have the option to continue as we have; as strictly Tracktion users, sans plugins if we so desire, and with a modicum of financial consideration this time around.

[diverdee]

Like I said in another thread I personally would pay for a downloadable version, partly to pay rms/mackie back for making the nfr version available - I almost feel bad about the fact that I got it free & can now use it to master stuff in (all i'll use it for now). But I wouldn't buy the bundled version in a store.
Interesting to see how many others feel the same, don't really think it will make a difference though.
Have to wait & see what the sterling price will be, still doubt i'd get it though.
Of course I would presumably have felt different if I hadn't just bought live (I actually used the money I was considering spending on T2 - but wasn't sure whether or not I should get T1, as there was still no firm word on the downloadable upgrade etc.)

[audiobot202]

Ok, I have a couple of points, but first, let me point out two things:
I have been a reasonably content NFR user for a few months and Mackie can do with their product what they will.

Now, while I don't actually expect an upgrade path at all considering I never bought the software officially, I am surprised there is no purchasable download lite option. This seems somewhat silly to me.
The other problem is that even with a rebate, I live in Australia and so cannot take advantage of the offer. Again, it's of little concern since I didn't expect anything. But, now that I've had a taste of the software and might want to buy it, I'm given no online option to do so. As has already been mentioned in another thread by other Aussies, our music stores here slap extra dollars on import products making it out of my money range.
I think it's wise to be realistic about the situation. Mackie can do what they want. It's a fine thing to have a boxed retail product, but I also think it's backwards looking tyo not offer a lite download package for international users who really want to be able to buy the software.

So, it may in fact be time for me to jump off the Tracktion bandwagon and move to another host. The marketing and promotional experience for T2 has been less than satisfactory as far as I'm concerned. They seemed disorganised. And while I applaud their generous $20 upgrade path, they've left certain other users out in the rain indefinitely when there could be an easy and profitable solution to those problems.

Steve

[rpc9943]

god. Just freaking buy the upgrade, for God's sake. And use it.

[Lunch Money]

willowhaus-- I'm sorry you took offence to my post, as it's obviously not insulting anyone for their "emotional" loyalty-- rather, I tried my best to commend you for it.

The arguments I made were strictly logical and reasonable, and if it's arrogant for me to say this, then fine, but-- they made perfect sense.

I don't know if you just need to re-read what I said, but there's no reason for you to call me names or to have taken offence at my words.

<shrug>

Greg

[audiobot202]

god. Just freaking buy the upgrade, for God's sake. And use it.

Yes, well, the point is Ron, that some of us foreigners can't actually get in on the rebate, let alone the boxed retail version.

[Germ777]

I see your point there Lunch Money and all but.............
Some of us have not been around this forum (my fault!) and had no idea about the upgrade path you were talking about.
The way I see it is:
1-. I will buy T2 sooner or later because I have come to love the lay out of T and the way it handles audio.
2-. I was not expecting an upgrade path but the mail sent made me wonder and I tried. Nothing happened! No big deal. Really!!
3-.An alternate option to NFR users would be that of the T1 pourchase + upgrade option = Unbundled T2 = 80$ + 20$= 100$. No need for a 60$ rebate. Just let me pay 100$ and give me a tracktion key for T2
Then again. No biggie. It will be my birthday soon and as soon as I find a Spanish/English distributor I will buy it. It seems it will be harder than I thought. No distributor nearby knows T2
OK. I had it for now.What are you people doing writing here while there is music to be made in your new copy of T2????
Germ

[tkay77]

..i agree....come one mackie boys...i´ll send you 100$ right away and you let me me download that damn software without this fancy "Pappkarton"... and then i will convince all my buddies to buy T2

tkay

[chimmy]

I've been reading in so many threads a lot of disappointment from non-US NFR users that is coming across as anger.
I would be just as bummed as a lot of you if I didn't live in the US.
This suggestion is NOT meant to piss anybody off.

Start a "Lobby" thread that is polite and professional addressing your need for online upgrade. Germ's option #3 above is a reasonable idea. If everyone who needs this type of online upgrade path chimes in respectfully it could very possibly happen.
Jules and Mackie have shown that they respond to the needs of their users.

Just an idea I thought I'd throw out there. I hope something gets worked out for all of you. I'm sure there are plenty of U.S. NFR users who would like the option also. There is power in numbers so let Mackie know, just do it professionally. (...catch more flies with sugar...sort of thing).

chim