Just an opinion.
Mackie kept it's price policy very secret until the last moment.
Also the way how to order the update was not clear to me. (boxed or download)
The fact that there are no updates (bugfixes for T2) yet. Will they get fixed?
What will be the price in Europe. Can somebody tell us?
Do they want us to gamble or what?
I want also pay 100 USD for a good working tracktion 2 but not more.
Maybe if the serious bugs are fixed.
Joenco,
The T1 NFR User lobby
-
- KVRian
- 1161 posts since 24 Dec, 2004 from Adelaide, South Australia
That's ok. They won't be getting my money. Their loss.platinumears wrote:No, its only disapointing for those who used the software for months, but were not willing to shell out the cash!audiobot202 wrote: It's just disappointing for a user who waited months and was more than willing to shell out the cash for the software.
Tough Titties I say!
If I'm not mistaken, KVR represents a fraction of the possible worldwide Tracktion audience, so actually, any hint they might have dropped (as enigmatic as they were) may not ever have been seen by the majority of potential customers. It's not great marketing actually Platinum. They do hardware right? Pretty new to software sequencers though are they not?
I think it's a good approach if you want your software to remain pretty alternative. And hey, if that's the idea, then I guess they won't really want to expose it to the largest possible audience.
I'm not being a cheapskate. I was offered a not for resale version of good software that I had never tried and liked it, all the while thinking of purchasing the full T2 version when it came out. They hinted at some upgrade path but never gave an actual number. That's pretty unclear marketing. But I was still willing to shell out hard cash for a good product and pay full price. And what do we learn now? If you didn't pay for the T1 version, you can't get T2 without obtaining the boxed edition. That's poor marketing actually mate. It nets the least possible audience and cuts your profit margins considerably.
Mixcraft 8 Recording Studio : Reason 10
-
- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
Bugger it, I don't think it's gonna happen - which is cool by me personally, my money will go to something else & I don't loose out at all.
Feel sorry for international users etc. who want it though, but I still believe it's a good deal if you want the bundled bits & bobs (depending on how it ends up being priced internationally, & on swift bugfixes etc.)
Feel sorry for international users etc. who want it though, but I still believe it's a good deal if you want the bundled bits & bobs (depending on how it ends up being priced internationally, & on swift bugfixes etc.)
-
- KVRian
- 1161 posts since 24 Dec, 2004 from Adelaide, South Australia
I think some people are forgetting one really important thing here: KVR represents a fraction of the worldwide Tracktion audience. Did Mackie tell everyone they might get a decent upgrade price? Did they email everyone? Or did Beno just pop his nose in now and then and say that it would happen but he wasn't sure of the pricepoint?
We're only asking for an option to purchase the darn software online !!! Nothing more.
We're only asking for an option to purchase the darn software online !!! Nothing more.
Mixcraft 8 Recording Studio : Reason 10
-
- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
audiobot-- Mackie have been hitting the magazines with large ads, Tracktion has been reviewed now by all of the major magazines either in its T1 or T2 incarnation, and there is quite a lot of information out there about it. It's obviously not AS known as the other major players yet, but that's not something that happens overnight. I really don't think with all the advertising and distribution being done that Tracktion is just an "underground" app anymore.
Even without the market share of Logic, Cubase, or Sonar, it's still a name that is already known and it will continue to grow from its current level of notoriety into one of the "known" softwares.
The NFR version was NOT their primary marketing strategy. It just happens to be one of them. It only SEEMS to us like such a major part of it because the reason some members are here is because of it. Some of us had discovered Tracktion already, and that's why WE'RE here. And many more heard about it because they're members of KvR.
But their MAIN marketing is obviously being done through distribution channels and in magazine advertising.
Greg
Even without the market share of Logic, Cubase, or Sonar, it's still a name that is already known and it will continue to grow from its current level of notoriety into one of the "known" softwares.
The NFR version was NOT their primary marketing strategy. It just happens to be one of them. It only SEEMS to us like such a major part of it because the reason some members are here is because of it. Some of us had discovered Tracktion already, and that's why WE'RE here. And many more heard about it because they're members of KvR.
But their MAIN marketing is obviously being done through distribution channels and in magazine advertising.
Greg
-
- KVRist
- 207 posts since 27 Mar, 2005 from Spain
Hmmm - so does losing money!ModuLR wrote:It was made clear that purchasing T1 would insure you the upgrade path. If you didn't snap up a copy, then you missed the boat... but you have to admit, the NFR version has been out over 6 months. There was more than adequete time to purchase a T1 license and thus be included in the deal. Opportunity tends to present itself to the risk taker.
I have an NFR version - it didn't suit my purpose and sat on the shelf for a month or so, until they released the T2 demo - which does attract me. Having caught my attention and piqued my interest, they then did nothing for, what, a month or more?
Finally, they release T2 - and at a very good price. Never mind any upgrade paths - for a first time buyer the $149 (even if that does include unwanted plugins) is a very good price and I'd pay it now. However, located in Spain, there is not a hope in hell of my actually getting a copy for some unspecified (and probably lengthy) period of time. The only Mackie dealer in this country didn't even know what I was talking about!
So, my beef with Mackie is simply that they delayed release of a working T2 for quite a long time and don't make any version (unlock key for demo, full or part downloadable, boxed, et al) to those in my position. That has not earned them any brownie points in my book.
I'm not looking for a special 'deal' for my NFR copy - I just want to be able to buy T2.
Is that really too much to ask?
Graeme
-
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 693 posts since 21 Oct, 2003 from Madrid
The culprit of the matter!diverdee wrote: (depending on how it ends up being priced internationally, & on swift bugfixes etc.)
Here in Spain I am expecting something along 200$ or maybe even more!. Those who don`t have a credit card or a pay pal account will be expected to do a wire transfer which costs (I am not making this up as I had to use them a couple times myself in non-credit card accepting companies) 40€ no matter how much money you are transfering!!!!
so add the shipping and handling and you get a very steep price for the "shiny little box"I have called several stores and they have not heard from the Mackie/Tracktion 2 upgrade or do not deal with Mackie alltogether.
2 stores are willing to "get it" for me, but it would be the same as if I ordered from an American Store so I ruled that out.
As there seems to be no Mackie/Tracktion response to this thread. I guess we are out of luck.
I will wait until the smoke clears and will weight how much the final price for T2 will come out of the whole international shipping. I am just not willing to pay more than 150$ just to have a cardboard box delivered to the other side of the world when a simple download would do.
Germ
Last edited by Germ777 on Sat May 07, 2005 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- KVRAF
- 1615 posts since 28 Mar, 2005
I think the request here is fair - I suppose many NFR folks would have paid their $80 if they knew the upgrade policy, which they didn't. Otherwise they had no reason to pay for something they already had gratis. So the "gift" of T1 will end up costing them $50 vs their paid version brethren.
Mackie move quite slowly. If they are hearing this it will take them a long time to respond - I would guess 10 days from the time they decide its a good idea. perhaps you should put up a poll to get clear numbers in the hopes of nudging M along....
Mackie move quite slowly. If they are hearing this it will take them a long time to respond - I would guess 10 days from the time they decide its a good idea. perhaps you should put up a poll to get clear numbers in the hopes of nudging M along....
-
- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Almost forgot the point I was trying to get to:
Since the NFR promotion was just another way to get Tracktion out there to NEW customers, there's no real reason that Mackie/RMS should handle their purchases differently than someone who had heard about Tracktion through a magazine ad. As far as sales and marketing departments are concerned, they're equivalent. People who got the NFR by hearing about it from a magazine may not have ever visited this forum, and therefore they wouldn't have been exposed to ideas like a discounted or download-only version. Do you think they're sitting in their studios, away from the influence of KvR (
) thinking to themselves, "I heard T2 is out! Damn, I'm gonna go get me a download version!" or do you think they'll be phoning their local music store to find out about availability? Sometimes people on forums lose perspective about the particular little culture we have.
Now, the fact is that many NFR owners HAVE become loyal and vocal advocates of Tracktion, so they've been 'rewarded' with a $20 coupon. Not bad if you ask me, and other NFR users have agreed that it's more than they expected.
On the other hand, I don't think organizing a thread to at least TRY to get a downloadable version is inherently bad. As stated earlier in the thread, it's just when requests and attempts are interpreted as being expectations that things get ugly. Unfortunately communication is not always perfect, and some people have been MIS-interpreted as having expectations when all they were doing was making a friendly request. Other users, however, DO hear certain rhetoric and DO begin "expecting" some sort of downloadable option.
I dunno... I don't see Cubase, Sonar, or Logic offering downloadable non-plugin versions of their packages, and nor do I see anyone lobbying for one. That doesn't invalidate the request, since there's no rule saying that Mackie HAS to do it the same way. But I just don't think it's realistic or even fair (to Jules, Mackie, and the contributors of 3rd-party plug-ins with whom Mackie/RMS signed contracts that have conditions we are not privy to), for reasons stated on about 10 different threads already.
Greg
Since the NFR promotion was just another way to get Tracktion out there to NEW customers, there's no real reason that Mackie/RMS should handle their purchases differently than someone who had heard about Tracktion through a magazine ad. As far as sales and marketing departments are concerned, they're equivalent. People who got the NFR by hearing about it from a magazine may not have ever visited this forum, and therefore they wouldn't have been exposed to ideas like a discounted or download-only version. Do you think they're sitting in their studios, away from the influence of KvR (
) thinking to themselves, "I heard T2 is out! Damn, I'm gonna go get me a download version!" or do you think they'll be phoning their local music store to find out about availability? Sometimes people on forums lose perspective about the particular little culture we have.Now, the fact is that many NFR owners HAVE become loyal and vocal advocates of Tracktion, so they've been 'rewarded' with a $20 coupon. Not bad if you ask me, and other NFR users have agreed that it's more than they expected.
On the other hand, I don't think organizing a thread to at least TRY to get a downloadable version is inherently bad. As stated earlier in the thread, it's just when requests and attempts are interpreted as being expectations that things get ugly. Unfortunately communication is not always perfect, and some people have been MIS-interpreted as having expectations when all they were doing was making a friendly request. Other users, however, DO hear certain rhetoric and DO begin "expecting" some sort of downloadable option.
I dunno... I don't see Cubase, Sonar, or Logic offering downloadable non-plugin versions of their packages, and nor do I see anyone lobbying for one.
That doesn't invalidate the request, since there's no rule saying that Mackie HAS to do it the same way. But I just don't think it's realistic or even fair (to Jules, Mackie, and the contributors of 3rd-party plug-ins with whom Mackie/RMS signed contracts that have conditions we are not privy to), for reasons stated on about 10 different threads already.Greg
-
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 693 posts since 21 Oct, 2003 from Madrid
Lunch Money wrote:audiobot-- Mackie have been hitting the magazines with large ads, Tracktion has been reviewed now by all of the major magazines either in its T1 or T2 incarnation, and there is quite a lot of information out there about it. It's obviously not AS known as the other major players yet, but that's not something that happens overnight. I really don't think with all the advertising and distribution being done that Tracktion is just an "underground" app anymore.
Well. Sorry to pop your bubble, but it is underground until it reaches the sale proportions of so cleed "pro" gear which I care not for. If it is good and does the job then it is as good if not better than Steinbug and what not.
Let´s hope it does so and in a steady rythm as I am much more impressed by T2 than I was for T1. Hopefully T3 will be even better!Even without the market share of Logic, Cubase, or Sonar, it's still a name that is already known and it will continue to grow from its current level of notoriety into one of the "known" softwares.
Jules deserves a good slice of the Software pie as do most small, independent developers who are helping us hobby musicians.
Bu such advertising is leading nowhere when only the USA residents have access to the product. If the USA was the intended market then the marketing campaing was erroneoulsy planned as the advertising in European mags was a waste of time and money.But their MAIN marketing is obviously being done through distribution channels and in magazine advertising.
Just my view about it.!
-
- KVRAF
- 1974 posts since 21 Jun, 2002 from Earth
It doesn't change the fact that you knew purchasing T1 would give you an upgrade path (tho what that would be, no one knew). I don't think people are debating the idea of giving NFR users a downloaded purchase path. I think the issue comes in getting it at the same price. Upgrades are usualy given to registered users at a cut price... a deal.. an incentive for you to upgrade. If you get the identical deal.. what stops anyone off the street (non tracktion user) from demanding a downloadable tracktion at the same price? because maybe they missed the NFR deal... what about those folks? you see my point I hope.audiobot202 wrote:I think some people are forgetting one really important thing here: KVR represents a fraction of the worldwide Tracktion audience. Did Mackie tell everyone they might get a decent upgrade price? Did they email everyone? Or did Beno just pop his nose in now and then and say that it would happen but he wasn't sure of the pricepoint?
We're only asking for an option to purchase the darn software online !!! Nothing more.
ModuLR / Radio
-
- Beware the Quoth
- 35506 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Lunch Money quoth
I dunno... I don't see Cubase, Sonar, or Logic offering downloadable non-plugin versions of their packages, and nor do I see anyone lobbying for one.
None of them were available as download-only in the first place. However some comparitive 'new wave' hosts like FL and Orion have been made available that way.
That doesn't invalidate the request, since there's no rule saying that Mackie HAS to do it the same way.
Agreed. And it was merely a request. I dont think its that unreasonable for someone who misses a boat to suddenly realise so. Its hardly the worst crime known to humanity.
But I just don't think it's realistic or even fair (to Jules, Mackie, and the contributors of 3rd-party plug-ins with whom Mackie/RMS signed contracts that have conditions we are not privy to), for reasons stated on about 10 different threads already.
Sorry, do you mean its not fair and unrealistic to offer it by download, or that its not fair and realistic to offer a retroactive T1 upgrade path for NFR owners. If its the latter, then I agree that it may be unrealstic. I dont consider how either can be perceived as 'unfair' though. (as opposed to 'not being fair', if you see the distinction.) And it certainly could possibly be realistic to offer it for download only. And it especially might be a more 'realistic' way for for non-US owners [who are penalised by the, erm, mysterious $1 = 1 Imperial Groat (or whatever) exchange rates found on all sorts of items] to be able to afford to upgrade....
I dunno... I don't see Cubase, Sonar, or Logic offering downloadable non-plugin versions of their packages, and nor do I see anyone lobbying for one.
None of them were available as download-only in the first place. However some comparitive 'new wave' hosts like FL and Orion have been made available that way.
That doesn't invalidate the request, since there's no rule saying that Mackie HAS to do it the same way. Agreed. And it was merely a request. I dont think its that unreasonable for someone who misses a boat to suddenly realise so. Its hardly the worst crime known to humanity.
But I just don't think it's realistic or even fair (to Jules, Mackie, and the contributors of 3rd-party plug-ins with whom Mackie/RMS signed contracts that have conditions we are not privy to), for reasons stated on about 10 different threads already.
Sorry, do you mean its not fair and unrealistic to offer it by download, or that its not fair and realistic to offer a retroactive T1 upgrade path for NFR owners. If its the latter, then I agree that it may be unrealstic. I dont consider how either can be perceived as 'unfair' though. (as opposed to 'not being fair', if you see the distinction.) And it certainly could possibly be realistic to offer it for download only. And it especially might be a more 'realistic' way for for non-US owners [who are penalised by the, erm, mysterious $1 = 1 Imperial Groat (or whatever) exchange rates found on all sorts of items] to be able to afford to upgrade....
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
-
- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
the dollars off coupons, the availablity of the $149 bundled version in stores it's all for the U.S. isn't it?
As i've stated i'm not really that bothered for me peronally now - i'll keep using T1 & would pay for a d/l as a thank you, that's all.
But i'm still feeling it for all the international users who may be paying a bloody great premium, £21 quid extra wire transfer costs, international shipping rates & all that shite - none of that makes money for mackie/rms or third party developers with bundled plugs - but it may turn these potential users off u get what i'm saying?
They see U.S. users getting money off coupons & paying a shit load less & I guess it feels a little like they are being shafted/forgotten etc. personally in that position (still hypothetical, but a distinct probability - & with no one from mackie saying 'don't worry - the price u pay will be equitable compared to U.S. users' i'd become cheesed off.
Whatever it's mackie's call isn't it - I just hope that they do come through for non-U.S. users & that they don't end up being forced into a pay over the odds or whistle scenario - it would be a shame.
As i've stated i'm not really that bothered for me peronally now - i'll keep using T1 & would pay for a d/l as a thank you, that's all.
But i'm still feeling it for all the international users who may be paying a bloody great premium, £21 quid extra wire transfer costs, international shipping rates & all that shite - none of that makes money for mackie/rms or third party developers with bundled plugs - but it may turn these potential users off u get what i'm saying?
They see U.S. users getting money off coupons & paying a shit load less & I guess it feels a little like they are being shafted/forgotten etc. personally in that position (still hypothetical, but a distinct probability - & with no one from mackie saying 'don't worry - the price u pay will be equitable compared to U.S. users' i'd become cheesed off.
Whatever it's mackie's call isn't it - I just hope that they do come through for non-U.S. users & that they don't end up being forced into a pay over the odds or whistle scenario - it would be a shame.
-
- KVRAF
- 1615 posts since 28 Mar, 2005
I want to pay in imperial groats. the federal barleycorn just don't cut it.
-
- KVRist
- 265 posts since 2 Jul, 2004 from Lost
...and i also remember how cakewalk behaved with the P5 V2 upgrade (even they have far more experience in selling software)...the offer to get new customers was: "buy P5 1.5 between March and May and you get the whole upgrade (normal price = 79$) for free"...that i call great marketing...i just hoped mackie had the same idea..
tkay
tkay