The T1 NFR User lobby

[Lunch Money]

Germ - yes, the international purchasing issue does cause SOME concern (I'm an international customer, too!) but that doesn't mean the advertising has been completely wasted. It just means that there will be a wait. AFAIK, new customers will be able to purchase at "full pop" fairly soon, it's just that the international rebate hasn't been worked out yet. So the people who are interested because of normal advertising (ie. not getting a discount coupon) will be buying it in short order. Didn't someone in Switzerland already buy it?

WR - when I say "realistic", I mean that it seems Mackie/RMS want to go boxed only. Whether or not this is a wise move is up for debate, but that's the decision they seem to have made. So it's not realistic to expect anything different. When I talk about "fairness", that's definitely a subjective matter and I haven't closed my mind to arguments on either side; however, what I'm mainly thinking about are the 3rd party developers:

- The contracts with some of the 3rd party developers are made so that those 3rd party people can also get exposure. They are being shafted if Mackie/RMS offers a version that cuts them out of said exposure. If I signed a contract because I thought it would get my product into a million households, I would be angry if someone welched on their side of the bargain (ie. GETTING it out there). The contracts likely (though I don't know for sure) have specific clauses that refer to such things.

[ModuLR]

btw, my points have been towards addressing the topic which started the thread. It's not about international dealings (which I would agree, something should be done)... the topic is making a point for NFR users to get T2 at the same deal as registered T1 users... with the exception of the rebate offer on the boxed version (which currently works only in the US). That was the original topic. Pricing and availability worldwide is a different issue, as it effects registered T1 users who might want to purchase a boxed version as well.

btw, I payed in frog knuckles.. didn't you?

[jens]

i think most people here will agree that I am usually a helpful and friendly poster, so i don't mind making this one exception:

This thread is a prime example of all that is ugly in humanity: give someone something for free, and they just expect to carry on getting stuff for free.

Selfish wankers, the lot of you.

yes, - give a little finger and they take the whole hand
(as a German proverb says)

damned freeloaders!

[diverdee]

Very good example of marketing which creates a buzz, gets people on board & keeps them happy tkay77.
I know for a fact that i wouldn't like P5 (the limited rewire thing cakewalk have got going), but I was still buzzing off it & considering buying it.
The point being there that they made the offer explicit, rather than having a 'trust us we'll sort u out innit' kinda thing going on.
I'll bet they shifted some serious units of P5 v1.5 also.

[Lunch Money]

While I don't think Mackie has done anything particularly wrong in their approach to marketing, there are improvements that can be made. All companies have ad campaigns and strategies that are more and less successful than others. Everyone gets a chance to learn from their mistakes and successes, even Jane and Frank who work in the offices of Mackie's marketing department. Successes: cool ads, great exposure and support! Failure: the "trust us..." thing mentioned above. While it's not a failure that totally washed the program out, I think that they WOULD have benefitted from more concrete information being given.

[Germ777]

the topic is making a point for NFR users to get T2 at the same deal as registered T1 users... with the exception of the rebate offer on the boxed version (which currently works only in the US). That was the original topic. Pricing and availability worldwide is a different issue, as it effects registered T1 users who might want to purchase a boxed version as well.

But you see it is part of the whole post. I had a "registered" version. Wether it is a registered NFR or a "normal" registered version is of little difference.
I have been off this site for a long time and I never heard of a "different" treatment to NFR users. I never asked for the 20$ upgrade, but rather to a different upgrade option. Now we are told to wait for the retail boxed version which does not seem to exist outside of the USA. So as I see it it is all related to the original post I made.
I want to buy T2. Upgrade or not upgrade. Bundled or (preferably) un-bundled, but there seems no way for us to do so.
Wouldn`t it be easier and faster to give us NFR users an online option?

[headquest]

btw, my points have been towards addressing the topic which started the thread. It's not about international dealings (which I would agree, something should be done)... the topic is making a point for NFR users to get T2 at the same deal as registered T1 users... with the exception of the rebate offer on the boxed version (which currently works only in the US). That was the original topic.

No it wasn't. Go back to the first post and re-read it! The original post suggested that NFR users could pay $80 + $20 = $100 for T2 as a download.

I would have thought that was fair. However, I think that Lunch Money is making a good point when he points out that Mackie will have obligations towards the 3rd party devs

[jens]

I would have thought that was fair.

not fair at all!

[whyterabbyt]

jens quoth
not fair at all!

And apart from wanting to deny people something, why not?

[headquest]

I would have thought that was fair.

not fair at all!

Is that ironic or a serious point?

If the retail price for the boxed version (with all the production costs that entails) is $200, including all those 3rd party plugs, why is $100 not a fiar price for a download version without the plugs?

I would think of FL Studio as a useful comparisson here. The Image Line approach has clearly worked for them, because FL has professional respect and is one of the most widely used music software programmes on the planet.

[IIRs]

FL has professional respect

[headquest]

FL has professional respect

Well, I'm not an FL user, so I have nothing to gain by responding to that, but you might like to bear in mind that more professionals have heard of FL than Tracktion , and some (e.g. Mike Oldfield, who I believe is one of the biggest selling artists in our lifetime) even endorses it!

[ModuLR]

But you see it is part of the whole post. I had a "registered" version. Wether it is a registered NFR or a "normal" registered version is of little difference.

I don't agree with you here. There is a difference. While the software is the same, the license is much more restricted.

I have been off this site for a long time and I never heard of a "different" treatment to NFR users.

but wouldn't common sense tell you that your free version wouldn't receive the same benefits as the users who paid? what would make you think you'd get the same deal on software that was given to you for free?

I never asked for the 20$ upgrade, but rather to a different upgrade option.

asking to pay $80+$20 is asking for the same deal in my opinion. The math is the same. There is no subjectiveness in math. I paid $80 for tracktion. I paid $20 for my upgrade. I've spent $100 on tracktion. You want to download T2 for the same price. How can you debate that?

Now we are told to wait for the retail boxed version which does not seem to exist outside of the USA. So as I see it it is all related to the original post I made. I want to buy T2. Upgrade or not upgrade. Bundled or (preferably) un-bundled, but there seems no way for us to do so. Wouldn`t it be easier and faster to give us NFR users an online option?

yes, I agree an online option would be great, but sorry.. not at the same price point as registered users. Especially when you've had a free version for 6 months. In which you could purchase a full license if you felt so strongly about the software.

The way I see it is very simple. I think a downloadable option for *everyone* would be great... but I think registered T1 users should get the upgrade at a discount, and others should have to pay. Sorry if it hurts people feelings, but if you didn't have enough faith to get off the fence earlier, then you should simply pay a different price. Because riding the fence this long gave you the benefit of not having to pay anything if the price for the upgrade turned out to be a bit steeper. You simply would have saved $80 bucks. But no one wants to discuss that aspect...

So you see, I support the international idea as I see how the prices can change with exchange rates and what not. But I don't agree with that is being proposed in the original post.. $100 purchase of T2 for NFR users.

[Germ777]

No it wasn't. Go back to the first post and re-read it! The original post suggested that NFR users could pay $80 + $20 = $100 for T2 as a download.

I suggested so because it would be a download with no bundled plug ins. It would kind of not make sense to pay the full boxed price for it. I was trying to find some middle ground at least for people like me who had the idea that we had a registered version who would lead to some sort of upgrade deal.
I do see where my original post sounds misleading though. I see your point.

I would have thought that was fair. However, I think that Lunch Money is making a good point when he points out that Mackie will have obligations towards the 3rd party devs

I see and understand that point of view too, but to start calling us NFR users names was a bit out of order as this thread was not directed towards getting a free upgrade or anything.
It all boils down to the fact that I had no idea the NFR version was not a registered one and Mackie never had any intention of giving us an option to upgrade to T2.
T1 is cool, but it lacks some features I need and are addressed in T2 so I never thought abpout buying T1 as it was a product on its last living throes before the new version.
I found about the lack of upgrade and tried to find a dealer nearby to no avail so to me it all still amounts to trying to get T2. If having and using the NFR version would allow me to get a lite T2 then that would be the best. If not then I will have to wait `til later on and see if another option comes along as I am not willing to pay over 200$ for the physical box.
Anyway. It seems to be more people against it than us who favor and are willing for a un-bundled, download only version for the NFR users who were mistaken on the final intention of Mackie.
Thansk for the replies anyway. Time will tell what will Mackie do.
Later;
Germ

[Lunch Money]

I didn't call NFR users any names when I made my point.

WR - what's your take on the 'fairness to 3rd party developers' point?