The T1 NFR User lobby

[headquest]

There are easy and quick ways around this. I dunno why it should cripple a creative person.

Are you implying I'm not a creative person? That's an observation you would only make if you didn't know me... The fact is... I've been an artist (professionally) and musician (casually) for most of my life... I've been called a lot of things... But never lacking in creativity!

I think he was implying that yes . But I wouldn't take it too seriously - I doubt it was personal!

Lunch Money is very protective towards his chosen software and seems to not understanding why the numerous bugs or issues in Tracktion would annoy anyone

I could solve that problem in T1 by simply turning off looping. But then the software wouldn't be working the way I do. I would prefer to use my "Creativity" making the music... not operating the software

Quite

By the way, were you saying that you're no longer getting the droped beat using Reason via rewire in T2? Because on Windows I'm still getting that bug here. And because I use Reason so much, this is really annoying

[diverdee]

yeah the dropped beat bug manifests itself if you sequence within reason & then loop from within tracktion.
I never noticed this as i always sequenced from within tracktion itself, but i can confirm it does still do it.

[valley]

Now, it *might* be illegal (again, IANAL) to purposely quote a specific upgrade price in an email to you, and then deny you the opportunity to take advantage of that offer once you've clicked through.

Not even then. Unless an attempt to establish a contract exists there is no false marketing. That's why bait-and-switch sales tactics is so common in US stores.

In this case, Mackie imposes limits on the availability of the deal before any contract has been entered into.

It was a cock-up, and would simply be seen as such in a court room.

[Lunch Money]

It was the opposite-- I was saying that you ARE in fact, creative, DHR53! This is evidenced by your very choice of sequencer. Consequently, it surprises me that something so easily worked around (yes, it still needs to be fixed, I'll never deny that) could halt you in your tracks.

Headquest-- You say I have a hard time understanding these little things, which is true-- but not because I'm closed-minded about the flaw in the program. I admit that it's a flaw and that it should be fixed. Rather, my response was to SOMEONE ELSE WHO BROUGHT IT UP whose question was, "How can you WORK this way?" I simply gave an answer. It was DHR53's implied message that we must be ridiculous for not noticing the bug. Well, I'm not ridiculous, I just use one of the 3-second workarounds and the dropped note isn't an annoyance to me anymore.

Greg

[headquest]

Ah that makes sense... you did seem to be saying something else before

I think where the confusion here is that I was talking about the Rewire note-drop, and NOT the MIDI note drop. ModuLR has found that they are separate issues. I know that his utility plug works well with many of the MIDI note drop issues. But I've not found any solution or progress for the Rewire issue in Tracktion.

DRH53 and I are both Reason users, and a high priority for us is rewire implementation in a host sequencer. I know from previous threads and PMs that he quit using Tracktion specifically (or primarily, at least) because of the rewire bug in T1. I did the same last summer, moving over to Ableton Live, but assumed when T2 was announced that this would have been fixed. (In the meantime I had experienced some teething problems with Live, and was keen to return to Tracktion. Those issues in Live have all been addressed/fixed by Ableton now though )

So I'm really interested to know if DRH53 has found the rewire issue solved in T2 on his Mac platform. I'm aware that the bug has not been dealt with so far as Windows users are concerned.

I assume from your various posts in the past slagging off Reason that you are not a user! So this is not an issue that would affect you, however creative you get yourself! Hence the confusion, no doubt!

[Lunch Money]

See, headquest, here's the problem, and I'm trying my best not to get annoyed with you, despite the fact that you jumped a conclusion, and called me an idiot:

- I have never 'slagged off' Reason. The only sequencer I've slagged off is Cubase. Your statement makes it sound like I have a history of hating Reason, when that's completely false. The only thing I've ever said about it that could be construed as negative is that the Combinator is no innovation.

- It only 'seemed like I was saying something else' because for some reason you are predisposed to thinking that I'm always defensive or protective about Tracktion. I am not. I am merely resonable. I AM, however, defensive about my character being slighted without any evidence.

- It didn't seem to me that DHR53's post was Reason-specific. How am *I* supposed to know that he's referring only to Reason users who must be nuts to not notice the dropped note?

I would appreciate it if you would stop assuming that I'm down on everything non-Tracktion (which I'm not), and that I'm always blindly defending Tracktion (which I'm not) or that I'm some sort of argumentative asshole (which I'm not). I often defend Tracktion/Mackie out of necessity because I just can't stand watching false information or misleading information being disseminated when I know it could ruin a newcomer's willingness to download and try the demo. The negativity around here is astounding sometimes, along with the whining. I simply try my best to debunk myths and rumours, while educating wherever possible. The fact that you used to get caught in the middle a lot of the time is ONLY evidence that you were one of the people perpetually spreading BS and being irrationally reactionary.

Greg

[headquest]

I have never 'slagged off' Reason.

Wow I can recall previous "meetings" where you certainly gave the impression of mocking me for using Reason. Perhaps you were just being nasty to me, and not Reason at all?

It only 'seemed like I was saying something else' because for some reason you are predisposed to thinking that I'm always defensive or protective about Tracktion. I am not. I am merely resonable.

Oh come on Greg! You're always at the front of the queue to defend Tracktion against the smallest percieved slight!

It didn't seem to me that DHR53's post was Reason-specific.

It wasn't. But my question to him was. And it was my post you're taking issue with, right? (although he did mention Reason once )

How am *I* supposed to know that he's referring only to Reason users who must be nuts to not notice the dropped note?

He wasn't. And to be fair, any MIDI user is going to notice at least one of the (three or four?) causes of note-dropping in Tracktion. That's why I personally think that Mackie really should have sorted it out before trying to break into the mainstream market.

I would appreciate it if you would stop assuming that I'm down on everything non-Tracktion (which I'm not), and that I'm always blindly defending Tracktion (which I'm not) or that I'm some sort of argumentative asshole (which I'm not).

You always seem to be waiting around for an arguement with me Greg! And I noticed that on the general forum you were recently accused by somebody else of "stalking" them for an arguement! I guess I should be greateful that you don't stalk me!

I often defend Tracktion/Mackie out of necessity because I just can't stand watching false information or misleading information being disseminated when I know it could ruin a newcomer's willingness to download and try the demo.

Are you a Mackie shareholder?

The negativity around here is astounding sometimes, along with the whining.

I agree with you there. But I rather think that by jumping in and defending Tracktion as readily as you do - often without checking out what other people are really saying - makes matters worse.

I simply try my best to debunk myths and rumours, while educating wherever possible. The fact that you used to get caught in the middle a lot of the time is ONLY evidence that you were one of the people perpetually spreading BS and being irrationally reactionary.

Greg

I have never knowingly written anything misleading about Tracktion on this or any other forum. In fact I have often helped newcomers with questions here at KVR.

Well, now that you've accused me of spreading BS, I would like you to back that up with some examples please.

Show me the posts where I have deliberately spread untruths...

[DHR53]

Ah that makes sense... you did seem to be saying something else before

I think where the confusion here is that I was talking about the Rewire note-drop, and NOT the MIDI note drop. ModuLR has found that they are separate issues. I know that his utility plug works well with many of the MIDI note drop issues. But I've not found any solution or progress for the Rewire issue in Tracktion.

DRH53 and I are both Reason users, and a high priority for us is rewire implementation in a host sequencer. I know from previous threads and PMs that he quit using Tracktion specifically (or primarily, at least) because of the rewire bug in T1. I did the same last summer, moving over to Ableton Live, but assumed when T2 was announced that this would have been fixed. (In the meantime I had experienced some teething problems with Live, and was keen to return to Tracktion. Those issues in Live have all been addressed/fixed by Ableton now though )

So I'm really interested to know if DRH53 has found the rewire issue solved in T2 on his Mac platform. I'm aware that the bug has not been dealt with so far as Windows users are concerned.

I assume from your various posts in the past slagging off Reason that you are not a user! So this is not an issue that would affect you, however creative you get yourself! Hence the confusion, no doubt!

Well, I don't want to get in anymore trouble here... But basically, I use Reason stand alone, and same with Tracktion and Logic. I've never been too enamored with Rewire... I find it slow and clunky to the point that I'd rather write songs in the apps, but use Reason to create drum loops and waves for export into T and Logic... (And as a complete host) I have my Logic autoload set up with 4 Reason objects, but I hardly ever use them... Tracktion, I like because using audio loops is a lot easier than in Logic... which is probably the worst! The midi in T2 is better, and I'm not getting the dropped note bug in the T2 demo at all... (With Absynth 2.0 FM7, Pro-53, and Linplugs stuff??) So, I'm cool with it at this point... Upgrade is cheap compared to what I have already... I'm more interested in the way it works, and that has changed for the better... So that, in addition to I really like my skin I designed, has me contemplating hosts... (as always) I can't seem to "love Logic" like some people do... And Reason is great but I do miss some of my plugs... So, Hmmm!

[headquest]

Well, I don't want to get in anymore trouble here... But basically, I use Reason stand alone, and same with Tracktion and Logic. I've never been too enamored with Rewire... I find it slow and clunky to the point that I'd rather write songs in the apps, but use Reason to create drum loops and waves for export into T and Logic... (And as a complete host) I have my Logic autoload set up with 4 Reason objects, but I hardly ever use them... Tracktion, I like because using audio loops is a lot easier than in Logic... which is probably the worst! The midi in T2 is better, and I'm not getting the dropped note bug in the T2 demo at all... (With Absynth 2.0 FM7, Pro-53, and Linplugs stuff??) So, I'm cool with it at this point... Upgrade is cheap compared to what I have already... I'm more interested in the way it works, and that has changed for the better... So that, in addition to I really like my skin I designed, has me contemplating hosts... (as always) I can't seem to "love Logic" like some people do... And Reason is great but I do miss some of my plugs... So, Hmmm!

So did you try rewiring Reason and Tracktion 2 yet? I know that you've mentioned before (last year) about the rewire issue between these two, because you helped me out with a workaround

Still problems on Windows... just wondered (out of interest) if it's fixed on the mac yet?

Anyway I'm glad T2 is working well for you overall. I actually think that it would be one of the very best rewire hosts for Reason if the bug gets fixed and I could bring my drum loops in without losing notes.

[Lunch Money]

I have never 'slagged off' Reason.

Wow I can recall previous "meetings" where you certainly gave the impression of mocking me for using Reason. Perhaps you were just being nasty to me, and not Reason at all?

Probably neither. Your recollection is false. Period. I have a crap memory for many things, but this is a case in which I don't need a memory-- I know about the consistency of my own character, and my daily goings-on. You'll rarely meet a more self-actualized and self-aware person. I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that I have never mocked you for using Reason. What I may have done is refute some points you were making. Funny how some people think that a counter-argument is mockery, when in fact it's just the other side of a debate. If I ever mocked you (which I may have done and in fact I believe that I HAVE done so!) it is certainly not as a part of slagging off Reason.

It only 'seemed like I was saying something else' because for some reason you are predisposed to thinking that I'm always defensive or protective about Tracktion. I am not. I am merely resonable.

Oh come on Greg! You're always at the front of the queue to defend Tracktion against the smallest percieved slight!

No, this is simply not true. I'm always at the front of the queue because I spend far too much time pressing "refresh" on my browser and therefore notice threads more quickly than some people. The truth of the matter is that while I DO tend to jump into almost every thread, it's partially because I spend too much time here, not because I'm particularly defensive about Tracktion. Also, I do not simply defend Tracktion at every "perceived slight," I refute false statements and/or ask the negative people to support their claims or to elaborate upon what their complaint is. Saying, "I don't get it. It seems to be working fine over here" isn't defensiveness, it's me saying a) I don't understand; b) I haven't run into that problem myself. That's it, that's all. Ideally, the person I'm talking to would respond with more details, at which point in time I have VERY OFTEN been known to say, "Aaaahhhh, OK, I see now."

It didn't seem to me that DHR53's post was Reason-specific.

It wasn't. But my question to him was. And it was my post you're taking issue with, right? (although he did mention Reason once )

No, I was responding to him, and wasn't taking any particular "issue" with anything. This speaks to your problem again... maybe I'm not the one who's overly defensive here.

How am *I* supposed to know that he's referring only to Reason users who must be nuts to not notice the dropped note?

He wasn't. And to be fair, any MIDI user is going to notice at least one of the (three or four?) causes of note-dropping in Tracktion. That's why I personally think that Mackie really should have sorted it out before trying to break into the mainstream market.

OK, that's good. You agree that I'm not a mind-reader. You'll also note that I've publicly stated many times that the dropped note should have been fixed. So where again am I being defensive?

I would appreciate it if you would stop assuming that I'm down on everything non-Tracktion (which I'm not), and that I'm always blindly defending Tracktion (which I'm not) or that I'm some sort of argumentative asshole (which I'm not).

You always seem to be waiting around for an arguement with me Greg! And I noticed that on the general forum you were recently accused by somebody else of "stalking" them for an arguement! I guess I should be greateful that you don't stalk me!

I'm not always waiting for an argument with you. More accurately, you and I are both active forum users, and both Tracktion users, often posting in the same threads. Get over yourself. Regarding this alleged 'user' who 'accused me of stalking him', here you go again with the insubstantiated claims, and it's really beginning to piss me off. The user in question was a newbie who suddenly started ranting at me in every post HE could find. He was a forum troll, and disappeared weeks ago after making a brief appearance to rant. He (not I) was told to f**k off and get a grip on reality by the forum members, and those that didn't post publicly sent me PM's saying, "What the hell was with that weirdo???" So before you start spreading rumours and making shit up, I suggest you check your facts.

Stalking? I'm far too unconcerned with specific people to ever bother with such things. If you knew the first thing about me, you'd know that it's completely out of character. A more reasonable assumption that if I have a differing opinion with someone, and we happen to subscribe to the same forums, chances are good that we're going to butt heads more than once. In terms of this other guy, it's a non-issue because he was clearly some sort of nutbar. In terms of any other forum user, it's obvious that 2 people with different worldviews will clash from time to time.

I often defend Tracktion/Mackie out of necessity because I just can't stand watching false information or misleading information being disseminated when I know it could ruin a newcomer's willingness to download and try the demo.

Are you a Mackie shareholder?

What has that to do with anything? I call people's logic into question in more than just the RMS forum. I've even been known to play devil's advocate on the "opposing view" just because I see that one side doesn't seem to have a member of the debate team capable of picking apart flaws in logic. For example, a big pet peeve of mine is people who beg the question (click here for an explanation of the logical fallacy), and I will call anyone and everyone on it, simply because that's my nature.

The negativity around here is astounding sometimes, along with the whining.

I agree with you there. But I rather think that by jumping in and defending Tracktion as readily as you do - often without checking out what other people are really saying - makes matters worse.

"Often"? Sometimes. And I'm just one of the people with the balls to admit, ":oops: I could have read that a bit more carefully." Most people just continue with their own arguments, clearly ignoring evidence presented to them, but they don't admit that they've done so. Even when I realize myself that I've done it (ie. not waiting for it to be pointed out) I will admit it and make apologies. That's called character, and more people should get some. As for it making matters worse-- yes and no. Yes, it can lead to a heated thread because there are then 2 sides debating. If the 'complainers' were not debated with, the threads would fly by nice and peacfully. So you have a point there, if that's the point you're making. But that would mean that in order to have some sort of peace around here, we'd have to let the forum fill up with uninformed and/or negative posts, just for the sake of avoiding an argument.

Surely that's not what you're suggesting....

I simply try my best to debunk myths and rumours, while educating wherever possible. The fact that you used to get caught in the middle a lot of the time is ONLY evidence that you were one of the people perpetually spreading BS and being irrationally reactionary.

Greg

I have never knowingly written anything misleading about Tracktion on this or any other forum. In fact I have often helped newcomers with questions here at KVR.

Well, now that you've accused me of spreading BS, I would like you to back that up with some examples please.

Show me the posts where I have deliberately spread untruths...

I never said it was always deliberate. Somebody can say something false or misleading without it being deliberate. As for being helpful, I don't think it can even be questioned that I have gone above and beyond the call of duty helping people as much as it is within my power to do so. In addition to threads in which I've debated with people, I'm also a heavy contributor to threads trying to solve problems.

As for the 'find me a thread' game... if you want to play the evidence-hunting game, you go first. Find me a post where I was 'slagging' Reason, where I was 'mocking' you in a purely unmotivated way, where I was 'stalking' this user (I can't remember his name, offhand, but it was in a thread related to using virtual guitars instead of real guitars if that helps), or where I have been 'defensive at the smallest perceived slight."

Get your head out of your ass. I'm certainly not the only person who has ever detected your past troll-like behaviour, and any 'mockery' I may have sent your way will certainly have been within the context of THOSE past posts.

And regarding THIS current argument in this thread-- don't forget that you're the person who set it all off by calling me an idiot, claiming that I was calling someone uncreative (when I was just engaging in a bit of banter and in fact was claiming the opposite) and making claims about my online behaviour that were false.

Greg

[audiobot202]

I really don't understand how anyone would not be annoyed or at least distracted by a drum loop playing back, with the first beat missing... But I guess it's all in the way you work??

There are easy and quick ways around this. I dunno why it should cripple a creative person.

I think you'll find, Greg, that this particular post was considered mildly offensive, no matter what your motivation..or emoticon in this case.
I can't once remember Headquest acting in the way you describe.

[whyterabbyt]

audiobot202 quoth
I think you'll find, Greg, that this particular post was considered mildly offensive, no matter what your motivation..or emoticon in this case.

Given that smilies are one of the few ways that you can dictate intent of speech on the net, why would you state that something which is clearly denoted with a wink-and-a-smile should be read as intended to be anything but? Its certainly possible to misinterpret, but the fact that the smilie is there makes it clear that it wasnt Greg's intention to be insulting, and I certainly was able to clearly read that he was calling DHR 'a creative person'.

If you choose to dismiss the context the emoticon gives, dont blame Greg for your own deliberate recontextualisation of what he said. You dont get to change someone's meaning, then blame them for a meaning they never supplied.

[headquest]

Hmmm, well in case you didn't notice, DRH53 seemed to be quite upset/offended by Greg's insinuations. My post was written basically to put DRH53 at his ease regarding the fact that I doubted Greg meant it personally. That's because I've witnessed Greg upset people unintentionally before. He's basically a decent guy, but as he explains in his last post, he "plays devils advocate" to stir up debate, and from time to time that upsets people.

Now he's upset because I used the "idiot" emoticon. Well I'm sure that you know that DRH53 is a very creative guy, and I think that insulting him was an idiotic thing to do.

[audiobot202]

audiobot202 quoth
I think you'll find, Greg, that this particular post was considered mildly offensive, no matter what your motivation..or emoticon in this case.

Given that smilies are one of the few ways that you can dictate intent of speech on the net, why would you state that something which is clearly denoted with a wink-and-a-smile should be read as intended to be anything but? Its certainly possible to misinterpret, but the fact that the smilie is there makes it clear that it wasnt Greg's intention to be insulting, and I certainly was able to clearly read that he was calling DHR 'a creative person'.

If you choose to dismiss the context the emoticon gives, dont blame Greg for your own deliberate recontextualisation of what he said. You dont get to change someone's meaning, then blame them for a meaning they never supplied.

WR, I actually have enjoyed reading your posts. They have been informative and articulate. However, you'd be wise to consider the reaction of the poster he was addressing. HE found it mildly offensive. I'm not recontextualising at all. I'm simply reading this thread.
Perhaps we should all get a grip here. This place has become very hostile in the past 24 hours.

[valley]

You dont get to change someone's meaning, then blame them for a meaning they never supplied.

Oh yes you do. If you didn't, the entire usenet history would total about 10000 posts.