Same problem here on Windows. Same solution here too (Live). Live also syncs to incoming midi clock superbly.msascha wrote:Me again...
Yesterday evening I tried T2 and Ableton Live! again to make sure my MIDIClock issues with T2 were not the result of my upgrade to Mac OS X 10.4 or something alike.
Results:
Ableton Live! - rock solid (as MIDIClock master, providing MIDIClock to 4 Electribes, 1 DX200 and 1 Regelwerk)
Tracktion (with no clips on any track, just pure empty playback and MIDIClock output) - very shaky and unreliable
I think I wasted the $20 for the upgrade. T2 is totally unusable for me at this point in time as I work nearly exclusively with external sequencers which need to be "guided" by the sync master device. So I'm back with Ableton Live! - maybe T3 will be able to send reliable MIDIClock information. This applies only to Tracktion on the Mac; don't know if the Windows version might be able to do it right.
Another Midi-sync issue
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- KVRist
- 60 posts since 4 May, 2003 from wellington.newzealand
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- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
to all o y'all - midiclock sux & ya'll know that as fact, so the fact that it works in all y'all other hosts is coincidental, so y'all mosey on now & be gittin yawselves some real hardware y'all hear?
have a nice day now.
have a nice day now.
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- KVRAF
- 4644 posts since 28 Nov, 2002 from Chicago
you're a bit dense, aint you mate.
Someone shot the food. Remember: don't shoot food!
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- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
Actually no, statistically I scored in the top 5% in the U.K. for I.Q. (though one can question the validity of those tests, based as they were on Hans Eysenck's theories) & could join MENSA, but don't see the point.
What I am, or was, is a little ticked off at the tactic I personally perceive you to have used in this thread, which i thought was a little sneaky & a little underhand.
People obviously have problems here & your 'OT' seemed to be a way too steer this away from their legitimate issues with the software.
As i stated earlier just because you claimed it was Off Topic doesn't mean it was, as your comments were about MIDIclock, which is in essence the actual Topic of this thread so one could argue that you were hiding behind semantics.
I just found this to be strange & innapropriate behaviour for a forum moderator.
Obviously I got a little giddy then, but that's just my personality - I tried earlier to explain my position rationally & was rebuffed, so i resorted to taking the piss.
That's all.
Edit: The deliverance picture wassn't aimed at you personally, it was merely a refernce to the fact that it does seem to be getting a little 'cliquey' in here, with 'old-timers' appearing to be getting very defensive about tracktion, & 'newbies' feeling like they get jumped on for raising what they feel are legitimate issues e.g.:
What I am, or was, is a little ticked off at the tactic I personally perceive you to have used in this thread, which i thought was a little sneaky & a little underhand.
People obviously have problems here & your 'OT' seemed to be a way too steer this away from their legitimate issues with the software.
As i stated earlier just because you claimed it was Off Topic doesn't mean it was, as your comments were about MIDIclock, which is in essence the actual Topic of this thread so one could argue that you were hiding behind semantics.
I just found this to be strange & innapropriate behaviour for a forum moderator.
Obviously I got a little giddy then, but that's just my personality - I tried earlier to explain my position rationally & was rebuffed, so i resorted to taking the piss.
That's all.
Edit: The deliverance picture wassn't aimed at you personally, it was merely a refernce to the fact that it does seem to be getting a little 'cliquey' in here, with 'old-timers' appearing to be getting very defensive about tracktion, & 'newbies' feeling like they get jumped on for raising what they feel are legitimate issues e.g.:
pw wrote: oh great, another thread where 'oldies' jump on 'newbies' for asking legitimate questions.
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- KVRist
- 60 posts since 4 May, 2003 from wellington.newzealand
The frustrating thing is that this isn't even a 'newbie' issue...i've been trying to make a go of Tracktion for a couple of years, and have always been working around the fact there was no midi clock in T1. In fact if you look back a couple of years, I sure you can find Jules promising midi clock 'in a couple of months' (but that's another story).
Occasionally I get pissed off and try SX again, but get even more pissed off an go back to Tracktion!
If midi clock was right (and maybe it will be soon?) in T2, i would be there...
Right now I am starting to get hooked on Live4, so maybe that's where i'll stay. It certainly plays well with all my midi clock hungry hardware.
Occasionally I get pissed off and try SX again, but get even more pissed off an go back to Tracktion!
If midi clock was right (and maybe it will be soon?) in T2, i would be there...
Right now I am starting to get hooked on Live4, so maybe that's where i'll stay. It certainly plays well with all my midi clock hungry hardware.
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- KVRAF
- 4644 posts since 28 Nov, 2002 from Chicago
There was no tactic. I was making conversation. Back in the day you could do that round here without people taking everything out of context and treating it as being an attack.diverdee wrote: What I am, or was, is a little ticked off at the tactic I personally perceive you to have used in this thread, which i thought was a little sneaky & a little underhand.
I used the term OT *specifically* to show that my comments were inspired by, but not relevant to the thread in hand. I made no comment of the functionality or otherwise of Tracktion's MIDI clock.
FWIW: whilst I had problems with early implementations, later implemetations seemed pretty stable on my setup.
There may well be issues outstanding. Also config differences, and hardware differences can affect performance - as I have noted elsewhere, IME Tracktion's MIDI timing gets a little loose with high ASIO latencies, for example.
Eitherway, my point that MIDI clock is broadly a 'just good enough' protocol stands. If you want a discussion on why, I'll be happy to offer up facts to back that statement up in private correspondence. Is Tracktion's implementation 'not quite good enough?' I dunno, but it is quite possible. Am I saying the OP should just use MTC? Well hardly. If there are problems with the MIDI clock timing, there is just as likely to be problems with Tracktion's MTC too.
So, yes - OT means OT.
The operative word there is 'moderator.' I'm not a spokesperson for RMS, I'm just helping out. My comments are always mine and mine alone. I don't speak for anyone but myself, I'm not paid to speak for anyone but myself, and I'm not especially interested in speaking for anyone but myself.I just found this to be strange & innapropriate behaviour for a forum moderator.
As far as I'm concerned, my job as a moderator is that of a bouncer, and in terms of 'representing anyone', beyond wearing a suit, and not grabbing the breasts of young ladies as they enter the building, I really don't. If things get rowdy I might lock a thread to stop things getting really out of hand, but beyond that I post as a user of Tracktion, and a customer of Mackie.
Someone shot the food. Remember: don't shoot food!
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- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
fair enough then, reckon i'll mosey on to bed now then
I'm spending way too much of my time on forums again, gonna have to start rationing this shit & actually start making music again.
I'm spending way too much of my time on forums again, gonna have to start rationing this shit & actually start making music again.
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- KVRAF
- 4644 posts since 28 Nov, 2002 from Chicago
@husker: if you get a moment, could you generate a small snatch of audio showing the time problem?
What I was doing dur9ing testing was to:
create a track with a sampled high hat playing 1/4 notes, and record the auido out from a synched MIDI device playing 16ths - use something suitably clickly such as a hat or a clave if possible.
This should show the timing drift clearly, and might be helpful for debugging purposes as it would show the rate by which timing was drifting.
What I was doing dur9ing testing was to:
create a track with a sampled high hat playing 1/4 notes, and record the auido out from a synched MIDI device playing 16ths - use something suitably clickly such as a hat or a clave if possible.
This should show the timing drift clearly, and might be helpful for debugging purposes as it would show the rate by which timing was drifting.
Someone shot the food. Remember: don't shoot food!
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- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
& I apologise if I incorrectly attributed motives to you that weren't present, guess i've got way too caught up in all this in retrospect, but again that's my nature I guess.
& I can be an argumentative twat.
& I can be an argumentative twat.
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- KVRist
- 91 posts since 29 Apr, 2005 from Fort Lauderdale, FL
Valley,
I don't have T installed anymore, so I can't send a sample myself, but your test sounds like a sound one...my own personal experience with this was not a measurable, consistent, recreatable "drift", but more a random-ish timing problem that seemed to correlate to screen redraws in particular, and also with zooming in/out during midi playback. Almost like the drum track would slow down during a redraw, and then speed back up to catch up after the redraw or zoom. Sometimes it plays back just fine, other times not...which is what made the problem so maddening. I do hope it gets worked out because this bug aside, Tracktion is a great tool, which is the whole point of us posting. It may seem like niggling to those who don't need the feature, but to those who rely on it for...say, RHYTHM..well...its a big deal, and not too much to ask, frankly, in a product that is supposed to be intuitive and revolutionary and -professional-. My .02. Good forum here.
--Matt
I don't have T installed anymore, so I can't send a sample myself, but your test sounds like a sound one...my own personal experience with this was not a measurable, consistent, recreatable "drift", but more a random-ish timing problem that seemed to correlate to screen redraws in particular, and also with zooming in/out during midi playback. Almost like the drum track would slow down during a redraw, and then speed back up to catch up after the redraw or zoom. Sometimes it plays back just fine, other times not...which is what made the problem so maddening. I do hope it gets worked out because this bug aside, Tracktion is a great tool, which is the whole point of us posting. It may seem like niggling to those who don't need the feature, but to those who rely on it for...say, RHYTHM..well...its a big deal, and not too much to ask, frankly, in a product that is supposed to be intuitive and revolutionary and -professional-. My .02. Good forum here.
--Matt
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- KVRist
- 60 posts since 4 May, 2003 from wellington.newzealand
as customdigi says, its really quite a major 'wandering' of sync timing, not at all subtle. Maybe wandering 10-20% off tempo. It may well be related to CPU load.valley wrote:@husker: if you get a moment, could you generate a small snatch of audio showing the time problem?
What I was doing dur9ing testing was to:
create a track with a sampled high hat playing 1/4 notes, and record the auido out from a synched MIDI device playing 16ths - use something suitably clickly such as a hat or a clave if possible.
This should show the timing drift clearly, and might be helpful for debugging purposes as it would show the rate by which timing was drifting.
I actually get another issue where it simply stops sending midi clock at all, and won't come back until I restart Tracktion. Anybody else?
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- KVRist
- 60 posts since 4 May, 2003 from wellington.newzealand
OK, done some more testing and I think i've tracked this down...
I was getting quite a major 'breakdown' of midi sync in my setyp, and eventually all sync output would stop. I tracked this down to having midi clock enabled on more than 1 of my Midisport 4x4 outputs. If I have all 4 ports outputing midi clock it dies very quickly. This happens even if the 4x4 midi outs aren't connected to anything, so its not some midi loop problem.
No if i set midi-clock to output on all 8 midi-yoke midi ports all is OK, and if I output midi-clock on 1 midi-yoke port then connect that via midi-ox to the 4x4 ports then all is OK as well...
Tracktion and the Midisport 4x4 just don't like each other it appears.
Without this problem, midi timing is actually pretty good. I have had a very occasional glitch where a clock seems to be skipped/delayed so it's not perfect...it is quite sensitive to CPU load, but it not as broken as I first thought.
I was getting quite a major 'breakdown' of midi sync in my setyp, and eventually all sync output would stop. I tracked this down to having midi clock enabled on more than 1 of my Midisport 4x4 outputs. If I have all 4 ports outputing midi clock it dies very quickly. This happens even if the 4x4 midi outs aren't connected to anything, so its not some midi loop problem.
No if i set midi-clock to output on all 8 midi-yoke midi ports all is OK, and if I output midi-clock on 1 midi-yoke port then connect that via midi-ox to the 4x4 ports then all is OK as well...
Tracktion and the Midisport 4x4 just don't like each other it appears.
Without this problem, midi timing is actually pretty good. I have had a very occasional glitch where a clock seems to be skipped/delayed so it's not perfect...it is quite sensitive to CPU load, but it not as broken as I first thought.
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- KVRAF
- 4644 posts since 28 Nov, 2002 from Chicago
is that the usb midisport? I only ask 'cos that's what I have and I don't have these issues.
What os are you using? I'm on win2k, and I have the most recent drivers installed.
What os are you using? I'm on win2k, and I have the most recent drivers installed.
Someone shot the food. Remember: don't shoot food!
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- KVRist
- 60 posts since 4 May, 2003 from wellington.newzealand
Yes Midisport 4x4 USBvalley wrote:is that the usb midisport? I only ask 'cos that's what I have and I don't have these issues.
What os are you using? I'm on win2k, and I have the most recent drivers installed.
WinXP SP1 with latest 4X4 drivers (from 2003).
I've got a Win2003 laptop, so i'll try that out when I get a chance.
So if you have midi-clock (and not mtc) enabled on all the Midisport output, you don't have a problem?