free lunch

[Rhett]

Looks like the NFR rebate is still there. Doesn't look like a mistake to me.

Here is the fine print.

Congratulations! As a registered Tracktion v1 NFR user, you are qualified for a special $30 upgrade mail-in rebate, valid with purchase of Mackie's new Tracktion 2 Music Production Software between April 15, 2005 and June 30, 2005. Print this web page/coupon to redeem your rebate as it has your unique rebate code. Without this coupon/page, we cannot process your rebate. Please fill out the coupon below and send it along with your receipt and the Tracktion 2 box UPC code to the address listed below. Rebate must be postmarked on or before July 31, 2005. Valid to U.S. customers only.

*** Limited to one purchase only per customer and rebate code. Attempts to use this rebate code more than once will result in disqualification from rebate promotion.

Valid to U.S. customers only.

[dernil]

The way I read it is.. No NFR's were supposed to get a rebate... if they did, it was due to a mistake. Much like the guy who upgraded his NFR for $20 bucks. Well, his tracktion is upgraded... he slipped thru because of a mistake. But odds are, any other NFRs won't get a rebate option because that hole has been filled. This is what I make of that statement. Nothing was ever stated about rebates not being honored tho.

Ooops. My mistake. The US NFRs did get a rebate. We are still working on the International options. So it was not sunspots that triggered the NFR rebate. It was geographical location. I get my celestial coordinates confused sometimes.

That being said, I really enjoy the slack that gets cut to entities (individuals or companies) on this forum. It strengthens my faith in the human race.

If you have a user account, please check it and act accordingly.

dernil
ex-Mackie dude

[ModuLR]

* There ya go. So now that the NFR Rebate mystery has been solved. It can be crossed off the list as an issue. If you're in the US and have a NFR license, your rebate for T2 box is solid.

* Now it's been clearly stated that T2 is a retail box only. So that means we can also check the 'Tracktion Lite option' off the list. It might not be what some of you want to hear, but Mackie has made it pretty clear where they stand. I'm sure the points from the user end have been made, but after 9 pages of armchair marketing the 'download version'.. this issue is like beating a dead horse. Any points of dissatifaction have clearly been made... now let's move on.

* So the main thing is international options for full license and I s'pose NFR licensed users. This has yet to be resoved. I'm hoping for the best.

[Lunch Money]

I would have added the following even had dernil not just made a post (it was in my mind right from page 6, but I had to read to the end of this thread):

Even dernil is just a dude working for Mackie who isn't expected to know every last little bit of information about everything in the world, and who is also allowed to make mistakes. Given the phrasing of the NFR rebate, I think dernil simply needs to research it before posting in such a definitive tone of voice. And other people need to understand that we're a world full of human beings.

Since dernil already confirmed, though, I guess I'll just have to have personal contentment knowing that some of us continue to be reasonable and logical while others once again prove that they're willing to get rabid at the drop of a hat.

Greg

[mandolarian]

Woof!

[Lunch Money]

Sit, ubu, sit. Good dog.

[diverdee]

I don't know about 'rabid', but there is certainly an air of confusion, disenchantment & a feeling almost like sides being formed, for the most part U.S. vs. the rest & to a certain extent old-timers vs. newcomers also.
When there is a certain amount of 'tension' in the 'air' (is there air on a web-forum, in cyber-space can anyone hear you scream?) a mistaken post by someone who is supposed to be an official 'voice' like that can be like a spark to tinder can't it?
I've just ben taking the mick I know, but that's because it appears more & more like an episode of the keystone cops.
This forum has been cursed by the groundhog, will this neverending cycle ever end?

[Lunch Money]

No. It won't. Sort of. Unfortunately in some ways but fortunately in others, we'll never again be a smallish group of people listening to new Rock Kennedy tunes and talking about how cool Tracktion is.

On the other hand, once people learn to calm down and understand that the world doesn't always work as smoothly as they like, we'll have a larger support base, more people to listen to the Tracktion in Action thread, and more coolness like jtx's colour scheme generator.

Or, in other words, once people stop being so damn tense and negative all the time, it'll be interesting to see how cool some of the newcomers actually ARE, because I don't think we've seen the best of them yet.

...until T3 gets announced...
...or 2.5 as a paid upgrade (people whining that the new features should be a free upgrade)...
Greg

[multree]

Sit, ubu, sit. Good dog.

[willowhaus]

Well, for me it's good enough. I was taken aback by dernil's phrasing, and it sounded like he was saying something else. I mainly asked for clarification, and got it.

Thanks, dernil - for the record, a bit of my faith has been restored. I still have a thought or two about the way some things were handled but no sweat. I'm satisfied, and I'm sure it's been a learning experience for you guys as well.

NFR folks - if you think about it, the boxed deal with the rebate is practically the deal we've asked about. In fact, it's almost a cheaper deal in the long run than the $20 upgrade - for $20 more than what they paid, you get the plugs (any one of which is worth that much) and you probably get to be upgrade-eligible for v.3, assuming they offer something then. And hell - even if you don't want any of the plugs, think of it as a $20 late penalty.

For you International guys - I hope something good pans out for you too. Give it time, I'm sure they just didn't think of everything from the get-go.

[parky]

Sit, ubu, sit. Good dog.

Go for walk?

[headquest]

I really wish I could find the posts where the DVD cover was discussed a year or two back; Jules effectively taking the piss out of people who insisted on a boxed version.
.g

Yes, I had forgotten that... well done for the reminder.

I'm not sure that it proves or helps, mind you. It simply illustrates the fact the the goal posts have significantly shifted under Mackie's (mis?)management. But as this is the new situation we will all have to adapt or go elsewhere

[headquest]

All sarcasm aside for a moment, do you think it's realistic to sell 3GB of data as a download? I know, I know... some of you don't want the plug-ins, so don't even get started with that because it's a different issue.

I'm simply saying that under the assumption that this must be for whatever reason, a unified product 3GB is an unreasonable amount to sell as a download product.

I hear what your saying there, and its a good point. I'm not going to disagree, but I would like to offer another angle on the download thing...

Based on koolkeys review of the boxed bundle, this isn't a "unified product" in the sense that the plugs install seperately from the main T2 program. So perhaps components could be available seperately?

One model that is becoming popular now is the idea of selling the core software (boxed or online - whatever) and then providing registered users with additional content via download. In this instance, T2 could be purchased as a download or in a box, and the plugs could be downloaded as additional content. Hence, the 3rd party devs are hopefully also satisfied. (Recent examples of this in music software include the Propellerheads with their ElectroMechanical refill, free to all registered users, but not included in the box... the Ableton Operator synth - seperate download purchase required, and the Image Line FL/synth plug in scenario).

We've all downloaded T2 as a program without too much difficulty. The Linplug stuff and the freeware software that Mackie have bundled is all available via download anyway... and the SampletankLE doesn't include the loops that were previously advertised. So I can't see how downloading any or all of this stuff ultimately poses a technical problem

(Also, presumably that's 3Gb before its compressed?)

As well as providing consumers in different locations with an easy way to acquire the software at a fair price, this approach protects the developer with a decent form of built-in copy protection.

I agree with Steve and others here that in an increasingly competitive market place, it befits developers to launch new product and market it on as many fronts as possible. Hence my earlier reference to Image Line, who seem to have this sown up. In view of Jules comments of old, and the radical innovative and forward thinking design of Tracktion, it seems disappointing for it to being marketed with such a conservative approach

We could all no doubt think of music software that is highly successful because the MARKETING was done well (irrespective of whether the program was really good like Tracktion, or not).

Anyways, Mackie have made clear their position, and rather reinforced my earlier fears that they would follow the digidesign route (the main rival, I guess) in providing Tracktion as bundled software for their hardware customers, and giving it limited availability to other customers in a box.

I know I've seemed like the ultimate pessimist in some of my recent posts, but that is because I have been a long-term follower of Tracktion who saw enormous potential in the markets that matter most to me (education, beginners, musicians who are not necessarily computer geeks, etc).

[GaryG]

I'm not sure that it proves or helps, mind you.

Probably doesn't 'help' anyones argument... I meant it as a comment illustrating how things had changed, for good or bad. I personally wish there was still a download option, particularly as T is such a lightweight app (even with the new Mackie plugs still only 14megs).

I've taken the $20 upgrade route and want to just get on with making some music now (and finding a decent, cheap drum sampler now I'm not getting RMIV )

I guess the bottomline is that Tracktion still rocks and I wouldn't consider using anything else. Except for timestretching.

.g

[audiobot202]

One model that is becoming popular now is the idea of selling the core software (boxed or online - whatever) and then providing registered users with additional content via download.

Exactly. It's certainly one angle. But it's all speculation really because of the disappointment of some users here, myself included. Fruiyt Loops has a very successful model, as they have totally embraced the concept of a modular approach to digital marketing. It works really well for them. I once purchased Sytrus for my Fruiyt because I'd made an incredible patcvh and really needed to render the whole track! It took not time at all.

We've all downloaded T2 as a program without too much difficulty. The Linplug stuff and the freeware software that Mackie have bundled is all available via download anyway... and the SampletankLE doesn't include the loops that were previously advertised. So I can't see how downloading any or all of this stuff ultimately poses a technical problem

Tracktion, before this, was always a robust downloadable program. It matched the ethos of the programming and went hand in hand with the times. You're right of course. Given that all the MDA stuff is freely available anyway, one cannot really count these as bonuses to the bundle. The only big problem is the RMIV I recall. I'm sure there are ways around it.

As well as providing consumers in different locations with an easy way to acquire the software at a fair price, this approach protects the developer with a decent form of built-in copy protection.

Yes, another side benefit.

I agree with Steve and others here that in an increasingly competitive market place, it befits developers to launch new product and market it on as many fronts as possible. Hence my earlier reference to Image Line, who seem to have this sown up. In view of Jules comments of old, and the radical innovative and forward thinking design of Tracktion, it seems disappointing for it to being marketed with such a conservative approach

Indeed. I am sure there will be a load of happy new T2 users which is great for them. There are also some sacrifices that Tracktion has made in moving to a bigtime conservative marketing approach. One of these is availability. As the online market grows (it's not about to go away anytime soon) and e commerce becomes more commonplace and people feel more at home in the digital realm, there will be pressure on companies to change or get out.

I'm sure that Tracktion will still pick up a host of new followers. It's still a very intuitive program with a lot of character and will be very robust for a lot of people in different areas of music. I am just surprised that its availability will be limited because of some backward thinking. And this is not to say that other big companies don't need to do their homework also. There are plenty of small time sequencers out there on the cusp, alal ready to take on the big boys. Tracktion is just one of them.
I don't want to see it dwindle to a bundled product...

Last year I spoke up in favour of the change saying that it would be good for T to have more exposure through Mackie. That it would improve and this was the next logical step. Now, I'm beginning to think that some of those early cynics and naysayers were right in fearing that T2 would become a very Mackie oriented product with a restricted life.

Steve