It's not bumping your price up. The retail IS $199, which of course is just on paper, so I'll give you that. But you got T1 for $80, and you used it. That's something that no new T2 user got to do. They are not getting a better deal than you, cause they didn't get to use T1. I'm actually surprised that Mackie even gave the full bundle upgrade for $90. Considering that one plug-in alone is that price, it's a steal.
You just have to see that you DID get value with T1, and hopefully you got your money's worth.
If you look at upgrade paths for almost any other sequencer, you will find that it's rare that there are upgrades for anything near what Mackie are giving, especially the $20 upgrade deal. Cubase, Logic, Sonar, etc, etc, etc, and even samplers like Halion and Kontakt don't get that great of a deal. With Reason, version 3.0 was almost as much as the $90, but they really didn't add that much at all. Trust me, I use Reason 2.5 and 3.0 on occasion, and there's not much new there.
Pro Tools, from 6.4 to 6.7, was a $70 upgrade, and that's a POINT release. I have PT, and I was lucky to get in after that upgrade, but that's still alot for a point release.
My point here, in shorter terms, is that you need to look at the bigger picture here. Look at your T1 value. Look at what other companies offer for upgrades. You'll find that it's not so bad after all, really.
Koolkeys
Upgrade options..I've been out of the loop
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- KVRAF
- 16154 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN
One more thing, if I may. Mackie has said all along that T2 would be the first version of Tracktion sold out of the box. Not until the release day did they even IMPLY there would be an upgrade option online. But they gave it, and it was a steal. Nobody should be surprised that they have to get the box. It was stated clearly.
Also, look at it this way. Online upgrade is $20. So let's say that is what the program is worth, just for the sake of example. That means that if you are paying for the box for $90, you are getting $350+(just going by about five commercial plug-ins, not even including the exclusive Mackie plug-ins) worth of plug-ins for $70. Even a group buy won't offer that.
Koolkeys
Also, look at it this way. Online upgrade is $20. So let's say that is what the program is worth, just for the sake of example. That means that if you are paying for the box for $90, you are getting $350+(just going by about five commercial plug-ins, not even including the exclusive Mackie plug-ins) worth of plug-ins for $70. Even a group buy won't offer that.
Koolkeys
Last edited by koolkeys on Thu May 12, 2005 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 1974 posts since 21 Jun, 2002 from Earth
@diverdee - I made it pretty clear that I think the international community should be provided with a similar US offer. I agree 100% on that. 
@PT - Whether you like it or not, MSRP is $200. $149 is vendor determiend.
@Dimwit - appologies if I seemed aggressive earlier... but I think everyone has kinda expounded on it. I hope you got your $80 out of T1.
@PT - Whether you like it or not, MSRP is $200. $149 is vendor determiend.
@Dimwit - appologies if I seemed aggressive earlier... but I think everyone has kinda expounded on it. I hope you got your $80 out of T1.
Last edited by ModuLR on Thu May 12, 2005 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
ModuLR / Radio
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 103 posts since 19 Feb, 2005
Like I said modulr
In relation to all the other products out there, 170 is a good deal for what you get.
In relation to Joe Schmo, who had no idea about Tracktion at all, who learns about it only after browsing thru Sweetwater, I get the short end of the stick. And no amount of sugar-coating is going to change that fact.
I've said my piece and I will just accept the fact.
Like my mamma always said "Life ain't fair"
And this is an example of such a sentiment.
In relation to all the other products out there, 170 is a good deal for what you get.
In relation to Joe Schmo, who had no idea about Tracktion at all, who learns about it only after browsing thru Sweetwater, I get the short end of the stick. And no amount of sugar-coating is going to change that fact.
I've said my piece and I will just accept the fact.
Like my mamma always said "Life ain't fair"
And this is an example of such a sentiment.
Last edited by Dimwit on Thu May 12, 2005 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
The problem comes down to retail pricing. Mackie DID honour their agreement. The discount given honours their agreement assuming MSRP. But since retailers usually give a better offer, it's a consequence that the deal isn't quite as attractive by comparison.
I understand sore feelings when we're (not even 'we' since I'm international, too.) paying more than walk-in retail guy. Believe me, I do. But Mackie HAS honoured their agreement. That's the end of the story.
Greg
I understand sore feelings when we're (not even 'we' since I'm international, too.
) paying more than walk-in retail guy. Believe me, I do. But Mackie HAS honoured their agreement. That's the end of the story.Greg
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 103 posts since 19 Feb, 2005
Yes Mackie has honored it's agreement. But what's to stop them from giving you the same deal if you show a proof of purchase for 150?
Why can't they then give you a 80 dollar rebate? That would be a much more humanistic approach don't you think?
It would say to guys like me: "Hey Dimwit we know that no one ever pays MSRP, so we are going to give you the same deal Joe Schmo got because we value the fact that you were patient with us when we were trying to get T2 out there"
Dimwit: "Hey cool, that's nice of you Mackie!"
Why can't they then give you a 80 dollar rebate? That would be a much more humanistic approach don't you think?
It would say to guys like me: "Hey Dimwit we know that no one ever pays MSRP, so we are going to give you the same deal Joe Schmo got because we value the fact that you were patient with us when we were trying to get T2 out there"
Dimwit: "Hey cool, that's nice of you Mackie!"
Last edited by Dimwit on Thu May 12, 2005 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 1974 posts since 21 Jun, 2002 from Earth
it's just the arguement makes no sense. If some newcomer discovers T5 for $220 in 5 years... while you've been paying $50 upgrades along the way.. you are paying for the ability to leagally use of the software. Whether you get your money's worth out of it is entirely up to you.Dimwit wrote:Like I said modulr
In relation to all the other products out there, 170 is a good deal for what you get.
In relation to Joe Schmo, who had no idea about Tracktion at all, who learns about it only after browsing thru Sweetwater, I get the short end of the stick. And no amount of sugar-coating is going to change that fact.
I've said my piece and I will just accept the fact.
Like my mamma always said "Life ain't fair"
And this is an example of such a sentiment.
If I paid for gas in my car over the last 17 years, I can't get mad at the new kid who just got his license and started buying gas for the first time. It makes no sense. Sure I've invested more money... but I've been driving the car the entire time.
ModuLR / Radio
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- KVRAF
- 16154 posts since 2 Dec, 2003 from Nashville, TN
That, my friend, was a FANTASTIC analogy!!!
It's simple, and there's no "sugar coating" this fact. If you bought T1, and actually used it, which I'm assuming anyone who wants to upgrade did use it, then you got worth from it. Plain and simple. You want T2 with all the bells and whistles? Then you gotta pay. How do you think it's fair to Mackie to give everyone the deal you're asking for? Take another $20 off for everyone? There's a reason they offer the no plug-ins offer. They realize that some may not get any use of the plug-ins and therefore will see no value. But if you are going to use the plugs, then you see value, and you will buy.
I'll say it again. Check nearly EVERY other major software developers, and most minor ones, and show me where there was a better value.
It's very common practice to have to charge this much for an upgrade. You're getting the better deal. T2 is worth $150. You get it for $90. Sounds like a deal to me. T1 was worth $80. You paid for it, and got to use it. That's the plain and simple, no sugar coating needed, truth. There's nothing that anyone can say that will change that fact. Sometimes I feel like I'm a glass half full in a forum of half empties.......
Koolkeys
It's simple, and there's no "sugar coating" this fact. If you bought T1, and actually used it, which I'm assuming anyone who wants to upgrade did use it, then you got worth from it. Plain and simple. You want T2 with all the bells and whistles? Then you gotta pay. How do you think it's fair to Mackie to give everyone the deal you're asking for? Take another $20 off for everyone? There's a reason they offer the no plug-ins offer. They realize that some may not get any use of the plug-ins and therefore will see no value. But if you are going to use the plugs, then you see value, and you will buy.
I'll say it again. Check nearly EVERY other major software developers, and most minor ones, and show me where there was a better value.
It's very common practice to have to charge this much for an upgrade. You're getting the better deal. T2 is worth $150. You get it for $90. Sounds like a deal to me. T1 was worth $80. You paid for it, and got to use it. That's the plain and simple, no sugar coating needed, truth. There's nothing that anyone can say that will change that fact. Sometimes I feel like I'm a glass half full in a forum of half empties.......
Koolkeys
My host is better than your host
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- KVRAF
- 3364 posts since 16 Feb, 2004 from atop a katamari
exactly Mod.
i'm afraid your argument about 'the new guy' getting it cheaper than you paid in total is completely invalid.
plus, mackie said that paid T1 users would get a T2 upgrade for cheap. you are still able to do that. if you want to get RMIV then get the box, if you want T2 take advantage of the upgrade. but please drop that stupid argument! it's ridiculous
i'm afraid your argument about 'the new guy' getting it cheaper than you paid in total is completely invalid.
plus, mackie said that paid T1 users would get a T2 upgrade for cheap. you are still able to do that. if you want to get RMIV then get the box, if you want T2 take advantage of the upgrade. but please drop that stupid argument! it's ridiculous
Kick, punch, it's all in the mind.
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- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
Another analogy.
newtonian physics is an accurate model of the world.. yes?
Yes.... within certain parameters.
It breaks down at the subatomic level, hence we have quantum physics.
So newtonian physics both is an accurate model & isn't an accurate model - depending on circumstances.
All this upgrade talk etc. - the deal both is and isn't good, it depends on your circumstances.
I tried breaking everything down - to apply positive & negative weightings to peoples options depending on their circumstances.
Then i realised that I was turning into a bit of an obsessive geek & decided to chill & burn a big-ead instead.
newtonian physics is an accurate model of the world.. yes?
Yes.... within certain parameters.
It breaks down at the subatomic level, hence we have quantum physics.
So newtonian physics both is an accurate model & isn't an accurate model - depending on circumstances.
All this upgrade talk etc. - the deal both is and isn't good, it depends on your circumstances.
I tried breaking everything down - to apply positive & negative weightings to peoples options depending on their circumstances.
Then i realised that I was turning into a bit of an obsessive geek & decided to chill & burn a big-ead instead.
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- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
I'd have gone for the upgrade $20 for myself & been very pleased.
For my daughter i'd have gone for the boxed bundle - & not been very happy at all.
So I'd have been ecstatic & pissed all at the same time, dependant on what i wanted & where I was coming from.
Of course if i'd actually bought T1 flat out for my daughter - hoping to get her the boxed bundle at a discount - i'd have been even more pissed, if I was living in the U.S. the rebate would have made me happy there though.
See what I mean about it being dependant on circumstances etc.
For my daughter i'd have gone for the boxed bundle - & not been very happy at all.
So I'd have been ecstatic & pissed all at the same time, dependant on what i wanted & where I was coming from.
Of course if i'd actually bought T1 flat out for my daughter - hoping to get her the boxed bundle at a discount - i'd have been even more pissed, if I was living in the U.S. the rebate would have made me happy there though.
See what I mean about it being dependant on circumstances etc.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Word.
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- KVRian
- 1161 posts since 24 Dec, 2004 from Adelaide, South Australia
Correct me if I am wrong here. But I believe that this will be the final online upgrade available for license holders. Either Beno or Dernil said something to that effect I think.
We're all right and wrong in our own ways. It depends on where you are and what license you have. For someone who paid for T1 it makes good sense and is a sweet deal. For someone who did not and lives outside of the US, it's not so great. For a completely new user, there may be availability issues.
A for Mackie working it out. Numkber one, I can say what I like about them according to my international circumstances and I don't have to use any sort of glass analogy to feel ok about it.
Number two, while a global release is undoubtedly tough, they have had months and months to prepare for these eventualities and still, the paint is wet. You can draw your own conclusions of course. Personally speaking, I feel let down. I was fulluy intending to support T2 with full payment at the time of release. I don't visit here daily and I have not seen one ad in a magazine, so the finer details of the release were not all know to me. The other important fact is that KVR is but a very small proportion of Tracktion users worldwide. Why would a couple of reps pop their heads in here now and then and give us statements on upgrades? It doesn't seem the best way to inform potential buyers.
Why wouldn't you just tell people exact pricing? Maybe the reps had no idea. I don't know how communication is handled at Mackie.
We're all right and wrong in our own ways. It depends on where you are and what license you have. For someone who paid for T1 it makes good sense and is a sweet deal. For someone who did not and lives outside of the US, it's not so great. For a completely new user, there may be availability issues.
A for Mackie working it out. Numkber one, I can say what I like about them according to my international circumstances and I don't have to use any sort of glass analogy to feel ok about it.
Number two, while a global release is undoubtedly tough, they have had months and months to prepare for these eventualities and still, the paint is wet. You can draw your own conclusions of course. Personally speaking, I feel let down. I was fulluy intending to support T2 with full payment at the time of release. I don't visit here daily and I have not seen one ad in a magazine, so the finer details of the release were not all know to me. The other important fact is that KVR is but a very small proportion of Tracktion users worldwide. Why would a couple of reps pop their heads in here now and then and give us statements on upgrades? It doesn't seem the best way to inform potential buyers.
Why wouldn't you just tell people exact pricing? Maybe the reps had no idea. I don't know how communication is handled at Mackie.
Mixcraft 8 Recording Studio : Reason 10
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- KVRAF
- 3617 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from Bradford - The Armpit of Britain
So i've just stuck with my T1 so i can use finalMix for mastering, now that would have been a bargain at $80 T1 price.
For free - phenomenal, cos it's a nice mastering tool.
I must admit i'm eagerly awaiting seeing what people think about the mackie reverb that's supposed to be coming out for T2.
All the other mackie plugs are quality, if it's in the same league I reckon it will be very nice - & will make Tracktion even better value for money.
The more I think about it the more vfm the $20 upgrade seems - the mackie plugs are a big factor in that.
For free - phenomenal, cos it's a nice mastering tool.
I must admit i'm eagerly awaiting seeing what people think about the mackie reverb that's supposed to be coming out for T2.
All the other mackie plugs are quality, if it's in the same league I reckon it will be very nice - & will make Tracktion even better value for money.
The more I think about it the more vfm the $20 upgrade seems - the mackie plugs are a big factor in that.