Upgrade options..I've been out of the loop

[timmyo]

@timmyo: ouch!

Yeah I know, probably (maybe?) unfair of me but I feel strongly about this - to be free and easy with the 'grab T1 now - you'll be better off in the long run' vibe and then hit with the caveats come sale day has left me with a bad taste.

That said I am getting over it, have done the $20 online thing and bought Jamstix.

My next piece of hardware will be a Behringer.

[headquest]

I do want one thing from Mackie, for the sake of those who can't get the boxed right now. I do wish they would provide the option to upgrade the $20, then apply it towards the bundle if they so choose later, because of whatever situation. I think that would help many problems here.

Peace, ya'll......

Koolkeys

That's a good suggestion, although it would probably make their job even harder...

One thing that I don't understand is - quite apart from "why don't they carry on selling as a download" (adequately covered elsewhere, I think!) is...

...why can't we buy the box from the Mackie site (or am I missing something!). That way they can offer the same fair discount (more than $80, as promised please ) to everyone, everywhere!

When I upgraded Live 2 to Live 4 on the Ableton site, I had the option of buying a download upgrade for one price, or a box ordered directly from the Ableton site, for another slightly higher price (but with postage, a paper manual, and a samples CD thrown in). With the other software I use - Reason, Adobe Audition and Sibelius - I have ALWAYS had that option to buy directly from the producer, without paying bumped up retail prices.

I'm not anti-retail. That is another perfectly legitimate outlet for Mackie to investigate, of course. But as a consumer I am used to getting a fair deal directly from the software company themselves.

[Lunch Money]

How many times do you need to say it and how many threads need to be made, though? Sheesh, give it a rest.

audiobot-- I don't have it in MY "hot little hands" either, and I'm still able to see that people are getting all snakey. Honestly, the lack of perspective around here is growing to epic proportions.

[audiobot202]

How many times do you need to say it and how many threads need to be made, though? Sheesh, give it a rest.

audiobot-- I don't have it in MY "hot little hands" either, and I'm still able to see that people are getting all snakey. Honestly, the lack of perspective around here is growing to epic proportions.

You'll note the nature of the emoticon Lunch Money. It winks at you...

[DHR53]

Now let me get this straight? Since I had to pay for the boxed version upgraders were telling me: "that's what you get for not being a loyal T customer, and shut up about it"... Now the same people are complaining that their not going to get the same consideration as the boxed people, because they only paid for the upgrade? Make up your mind... am I getting screwed or you? Ha Ha!

For the record, I think it was a good deal getting the program and all the other stuff for $130. And just so you know, I'm a beta tester for Linplug, but I actually purchased RMIV, awhile ago... still, those custom midi files are pretty cool for sure!!

[koolkeys]

Just a quick note. Mackie doesn't sell any of their products directly from their website, except for hats and shirts and stuff like that. So it's not a surprise that it's the same with T2. With some companies, their business model wouldn't allow them to sell the same things that distributors do, as it can cause a conflict of interest. Other companies can, but it's not uncommon to be like this. Many, many companies are like this, including Steinberg and such.

Koolkeys

[jalapeno]

Koolkeys, you are right. But as Mackie hasn't sold T via retail channels before - where has this conflict arisen ?

[jalapeno]

Mackie UK update: They haven't got it in country for resale yet, predicting 2 weeks or so, and have no clue regrading T1 User Rebate (though they know about the issue, but I got the impression mushroom management was at work).

[koolkeys]

Koolkeys, you are right. But as Mackie hasn't sold T via retail channels before - where has this conflict arisen ?

Sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "conflict". So maybe I'm misunderstanding your statement. But T2 is the first version of Tracktion that Mackie has really grabbed onto. T1 was out for a long time before Mackie got involved, so it would have really not been profitable for Mackie to offer T1 retail. So they waited and used T2 as their product of choice. Is this what you mean? That Mackie has always sold T online? If not, sorry.

I read that someone said the Mackie rep hinted that the same rebate deal likely wouldn't happen for non-US customers. And that may be true, but who's to say if there won't be a different rebate deal offered. Plus, as it was also said elsewhere, who knows how much that rep was actually aware of and how much he actually KNOWS is going on. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.

Koolkeys

[jalapeno]

Sorry - jargon. Channel Conflict, where the wholesaler sells over the retailer's heads.

[mcnelson]

My ass still hurts over this.....

[bewing77]

That, my friend, was a FANTASTIC analogy!!!

It's simple, and there's no "sugar coating" this fact. If you bought T1, and actually used it, which I'm assuming anyone who wants to upgrade did use it, then you got worth from it. Plain and simple. You want T2 with all the bells and whistles? Then you gotta pay. How do you think it's fair to Mackie to give everyone the deal you're asking for? Take another $20 off for everyone? There's a reason they offer the no plug-ins offer. They realize that some may not get any use of the plug-ins and therefore will see no value. But if you are going to use the plugs, then you see value, and you will buy.

I'll say it again. Check nearly EVERY other major software developers, and most minor ones, and show me where there was a better value.

It's very common practice to have to charge this much for an upgrade. You're getting the better deal. T2 is worth $150. You get it for $90. Sounds like a deal to me. T1 was worth $80. You paid for it, and got to use it. That's the plain and simple, no sugar coating needed, truth. There's nothing that anyone can say that will change that fact. Sometimes I feel like I'm a glass half full in a forum of half empties.......

Koolkeys

It's interesting that you (and others) now argue that it's cool that T1 owners pay more than first time buyers when just a few months ago you posted

The only guarantee that has been made is that you will not pay MORE than the total T2 pricetag if you own the first version. And they said it will be worth it to buy version 1 as there will probably be a little bit of a price break. But you definately won't have to pay more than the difference between the two versions.

Koolkeys

I can accept that I can't get the rebate on the boxed version yet (not even sure that I need it yet). But the word was that, just like you said, previous Tracktion users would not pay more, but more likely less, then the newcommers. It's still a good deal, it just upsets me slightly that Mackie in fact did break their promise, making me pay more in total then the price of the T2 box (much ore until they get the international rebate settled).

[semiquaver]

v1 + upgrade *always* costs more than v2 in software retailing: first there is the cost of the use: If you have v1 for 2 years @ 80 then v2 for two years $ with a $90 upgrade you are paying 42.50/year. New buyer x has two years @ $150 = $75/year. You both face the same costs from v3. These costs are callibrated (in theory) to the utility: v2 worth more / year than v1 etc.

Furthermore if v1 + upgrade is less than v2 folks rush out and buy v1 cannabilizing v2 sales.

the sad end-game is that (as the initial retail price must keep rising to make the upgrades work) eventually you end up with Peak for $500 and the product dies....

[koolkeys]

I never contradicted myself though. When Mackie made their promise about the upgrade prices, no plug-ins were announced. Now, with the value of the plugs, it would likely be near impossible for them to offer anyone that offer with the bundle.

But they DID honor their promise. $20, that's all it takes. By the way, as you know, I do have the box, and I had to pay more also. Yes, I get the rebate, and I do think that everyone else should also. But it's unrealistic to expect Mackie to completely have all non-US rebate deals worked out when all the contracts weren't even signed until right before release.

I haven't contradicted any opinions I've stated in the past. And Mackie hasn't broken any promises.

I still agree that it will only be fair to offer a decent upgrade path for non-US customers. You can think I'm being smug, or whatever, but I honestly do feel for you and hope that you can have the same access that us in the states have. Peace ya'll.

Koolkeys

[clueless]

Yes, I get the rebate, and I do think that everyone else should also. But it's unrealistic to expect Mackie to completely have all non-US rebate deals worked out when all the contracts weren't even signed until right before release.

that's fine.

I'd just wish they'd actually tell us we can go ahead with the $20 upgrade without buggering up a future rebate deal on the boxed version.