I, like a lot of people, use the UAD-1 and SIR extensively. I use both on drums and in many cases will run a full drum mix to a separate channel (a bus in any other program) and eq it with a pultec and compress the hell out of it. This lets me get a fat compressed drum sound; but, I get to keep the transients of my uncompressed mix. I have heard people call it NYC compression.
The fact that the racks don't let me do this because tracktion can't handle two instances of delay introducing plugins is asinine. I really really need full delay compensation in racks for multiple instances of delay introducing plugins such as SIR and UAD Pluggins.
I know I am not the only person who uses this style of compression/eq on drums. I really want to use this software. I payed for the first version and will pay for the new one as soon as they get delay compensation taken care of across the racks.
That being said, please don't respond to this telling me workarounds. I know all the possible ways to make everything delay equally. I am not interested in working around. I currently use Cubase SX and Samplitude and they compensate fine. I am just attracted to tracktion because of how uncluttered it is and how fast the lack of clutter allows me to work; however, when i have to add a bunch of extra racks and zero them out or add pluggins to introduce delay to tracks that means I have to keep track of all of that crap. If I have to keep track of it I get slowed down and/or make mistakes. I hate mixing and playing the "find the track that is out of phase" game or the "find out which track is delayed or which track isn't" game. I'm not interested in workarounds or people telling me that it isn't as much work as I make it out to be.
I am interested in when Mackie thinks full delay compensation will be available in tracktion. Once that have that I will be interested in giving them more of my business and will likely be buying a hardware controller from them as well. Does anyone have any idea when this is coming or if it is even on the radar?
Full Delay Compensation in racks for UAD Plugins and SIR
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- KVRer
- 12 posts since 13 Apr, 2005 from Portland, Oregon
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- KVRist
- 453 posts since 10 Jul, 2003 from Rotterdam
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
What exactly are you trying to do? Racks already have PDC so long as you follow a few simple rules..
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 12 posts since 13 Apr, 2005 from Portland, Oregon
That is what I mean. Rule are dumb and I shouldn't have to do it. If I want to put 2 latency introducing pluggins on one rack effect and not run everything through there I should be able to. In its existing state it cannot be done without lame workarounds. I know it CAN be done. I use samplitude, everything is a workaround in samplitude. The point is that I shouldn't have to. I just want it to work how it should.
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
i think maybe you are underestimating the complexity of what you are asking for.. 
That said, it is possible to use more than one latency-causing plug in a rack.. eg: two of your UAD plugs in parallel (I assume they all have the same latency..?).
Out of interest, can you name a DAW that allows rack-type routing flexibility and does have full PDC in every situation? (Does eXT have full PDC..?)
That said, it is possible to use more than one latency-causing plug in a rack.. eg: two of your UAD plugs in parallel (I assume they all have the same latency..?).Out of interest, can you name a DAW that allows rack-type routing flexibility and does have full PDC in every situation? (Does eXT have full PDC..?)
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
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- KVRAF
- 1527 posts since 3 Apr, 2002 from desolation row
I don't know how many times I have read you write this'ears wrote:What exactly are you trying to do? Racks already have PDC so long as you follow a few simple rules..
!! every thread about PDC not working! But, it does NOT work in all situations, and this also applies for send/returns, not just racks, so the complexity argument you have also forwarded doesn't hold. I for one have posted many times about combinations in which it doesn't work, that are not particularly complex and only involve one plug that requires PDC....
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- KVRAF
- 3364 posts since 16 Feb, 2004 from atop a katamari
i think you're overlooking the meaning of 'complexity' put forward; that is, the underlying code requirements. for all we know it may not even be possible- the delay added using this method is currently there because it has to be. i'm sure jules is looking into ways in which this can be eliminated, but one thing that's certain is that it is definitely a complex issue.
Kick, punch, it's all in the mind.
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- KVRAF
- 2565 posts since 30 Mar, 2004 from Phoenix AZ USA
There is a much bigger problem with T2 and UAD.
When you save a song not all the UAD parameters are saved
For example on the DM-1 all the knob positions will be saved except for the LFO RATE.
Similar result with some knobs on the EQ in the channel strip.
(sorry I told you)
When you save a song not all the UAD parameters are saved
For example on the DM-1 all the knob positions will be saved except for the LFO RATE.
Similar result with some knobs on the EQ in the channel strip.
(sorry I told you)
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
I never said it works in all situations. It is possible to set up a delay compensated aux send however..pw wrote:I don't know how many times I have read you write this'ears wrote:What exactly are you trying to do? Racks already have PDC so long as you follow a few simple rules..
.. I ask you once again: what exactly are you trying to do? There is probably just a simple change needed to make it work, eg: multi output racks will need a aux send rack filter for every output, even if some are set to send 0dB.
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stephengardner stephengardner https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=49515
- KVRist
- 62 posts since 27 Nov, 2004
Im' running 2 Uad cards this would be a nice fix along with HDR style editing and automated mutes...
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
It would only be a fix if it were currently broken.stephengardner wrote:Im' running 2 Uad cards this would be a nice fix along with HDR style editing and automated mutes...
I challenge you to name an app that offers full modularity and full hold-your-hand-type PDC..Why would automating the track mutes be better than automating the mutes on a (dedicated) volume filter?
Personally I think HDRs should gain Tracktion style editing..
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 12 posts since 13 Apr, 2005 from Portland, Oregon
A DAW that has full PDC? Cubase SX 1,2,and 3. 3 is absolutely flawless as far as that goes. It adjusts it if you add it in the middle of the track playing with only a minor hickup that happens to be exactly as long as your hardware latency is set to. Samplitude has full latency compensation; but you have to restart playing the track. The latest version of Logic does it too. They just released a patch to make the busses fully compliant.
I have no doubt that it is hard to code; but it is possible and I know mackie wants my money and loyalty as much as the other 3 companies do.
This brings up another point that annoys me. I do actually have a lot of experience on multiple pieces of software. I've recorded and released a few albums in a professional environment that required very high system availability. I've bought every major piece of software with the exception of Sonar which I used at a coworkers house and just didn't like the feel of (although it has full PDC to my knowledge too). It's expensive, but every company hits milestones at different times and I am always curious of someone has figured it all out.
Tracktion has everyone beat on user interface. I want to use it; but it is going to require some effort on their part to bring it up to where it can compete with Cubase. I am starting to build a loyalty to Cubase SX 3 now because Steinberg has all but eliminated the problems I use to have with them... stability. That being said, I will continue to try software from other companies until someone makes the program that just literally beats them all. Back to my point...
The thing that annoys me is people defending their software to the point of lunacy. The Samplitude forums are completely littered with people going around and making excuses and demonstrating workarounds. I am tired of it. It's actually enough to make me not use samplitude except for mastering because I have to do so many workarounds and not enough real solutions. I know the workarounds. I could probably write the manuals to some of this software. The point is I want software that doesn't require workarounds. I want software that just obviously works. That is why I put so much effort into trying to get people to avoid saying exactly what 'ears said. Again, I know it CAN be done, I also know how it SHOULD be done. If it doesn't do what it SHOULD I am not going to pay for it.
It isn't a personal attack; it is a feature request. If lots of people say they agree then it gets moved to a higher priority at mackie to get the feature added. People explaining workarounds does nothing other than help out the people who use this as their only DAW. For those people I suggest you do a search for "delay compensation racks" in the search menu. You will find suggestions on how to overcome this issue via workarounds suggested by 'ears and others.
I have no doubt that it is hard to code; but it is possible and I know mackie wants my money and loyalty as much as the other 3 companies do.
This brings up another point that annoys me. I do actually have a lot of experience on multiple pieces of software. I've recorded and released a few albums in a professional environment that required very high system availability. I've bought every major piece of software with the exception of Sonar which I used at a coworkers house and just didn't like the feel of (although it has full PDC to my knowledge too). It's expensive, but every company hits milestones at different times and I am always curious of someone has figured it all out.
Tracktion has everyone beat on user interface. I want to use it; but it is going to require some effort on their part to bring it up to where it can compete with Cubase. I am starting to build a loyalty to Cubase SX 3 now because Steinberg has all but eliminated the problems I use to have with them... stability. That being said, I will continue to try software from other companies until someone makes the program that just literally beats them all. Back to my point...
The thing that annoys me is people defending their software to the point of lunacy. The Samplitude forums are completely littered with people going around and making excuses and demonstrating workarounds. I am tired of it. It's actually enough to make me not use samplitude except for mastering because I have to do so many workarounds and not enough real solutions. I know the workarounds. I could probably write the manuals to some of this software. The point is I want software that doesn't require workarounds. I want software that just obviously works. That is why I put so much effort into trying to get people to avoid saying exactly what 'ears said. Again, I know it CAN be done, I also know how it SHOULD be done. If it doesn't do what it SHOULD I am not going to pay for it.
It isn't a personal attack; it is a feature request. If lots of people say they agree then it gets moved to a higher priority at mackie to get the feature added. People explaining workarounds does nothing other than help out the people who use this as their only DAW. For those people I suggest you do a search for "delay compensation racks" in the search menu. You will find suggestions on how to overcome this issue via workarounds suggested by 'ears and others.