Full Delay Compensation in racks for UAD Plugins and SIR

[rumpsummoner]

(sorry to interrupt: pe, so it's possible to avoid pdc problems with uad plugs in racks by just using the bundled delay compensator plugs (one for each uad plug)?)

I don't have a UAD (unfortunately) but it should work..

I have a rack preset that uses two Acuma stereo compressors wired in parallel in a rack for parallel compression. One of the compressors is set to pass the signal with no processing, and is only there to match the latency of the dry signal with the compressed version. It should be possible to set up the same thing with a UAD compressor in parallel with a delay compensator plug.. the 'hassle' argument doesn't really hold water for me, as this rack can then be saved and re-used with ease.

That is true, the rack can be saved, but every time you use it, it will throw off the other tracks. You can send all of those tracks to a single track and apply delay compensation to that track with the UAD-1 pluggins or however you want to do it; but it is a pain when you decide to use that rack on pluggins in that group. Then you have to change the output again. It doesn't sound like much of a pain; but when you have lots of tracks it starts to add up. I do it so much that it just wears on me and I get tired of doing it.

[rumpsummoner]

How do you side chain in Tracktion?

Stick the plug in a rack, and the rack on two tracks.

Then do you just set which track it uses as a side chain in the pluggin? That's pretty sweet.

[valley]

Then do you just set which track it uses as a side chain in the pluggin? That's pretty sweet.

pretty much.

The rack will have a selection of input pins, one/two for the sidechain, and one/two for the comp channel. Just pick which inputs are connected to each of your two tracks, and you are done.

[cbit]

you choose, per rack instance, which of the racks inputs and outputs are routed to that particular track.

[IIRs]

Although, you don't have to adjust the volume in two tracks in Cubase because you can put your aux send post fader so as you adjust it, it adjusts the other track too.

But this is pre-compression: if you adjust the source track you aren't adjusting the level of the compressor output, you are adjusting the level of its input, ie: you are adjusting the amount of gain-reduction applied..

1. Enable sidechaining in whatever compressor/effect you use that supports it.

2. Add a group track and set to Quadro (4.0).

3. Route both track and control sources to the group.

4. Use the surround panners to set the track source to front middle and the control source to rear middle.

5. If you need output from your control source at the main bus, simply add a send and enable it.

6. Set up your compressor to listen on the right tracks.

Urgh. Might I suggest that you would use side-chaining a lot more if it wasn't such a bitch to set up?

Side Chaining in Tracktion:

Wrap the compressor in a rack like so:



The key track should be set up like this:



The signal track like this:



This isn't true stereo as the Acuma plugs only have a single side-chain input, but the principle would be the same for a plug that did, eg: the Golden Audio Channel. (I had these screenshots already: couldn't be bothered making fresh stereo versions. )

[rumpsummoner]

Although, you don't have to adjust the volume in two tracks in Cubase because you can put your aux send post fader so as you adjust it, it adjusts the other track too.

But this is pre-compression: if you adjust the source track you aren't adjusting the level of the compressor output, you are adjusting the level of its input, ie: you are adjusting the amount of gain-reduction applied..

1. Enable sidechaining in whatever compressor/effect you use that supports it.

2. Add a group track and set to Quadro (4.0).

3. Route both track and control sources to the group.

4. Use the surround panners to set the track source to front middle and the control source to rear middle.

5. If you need output from your control source at the main bus, simply add a send and enable it.

6. Set up your compressor to listen on the right tracks.

Urgh. Might I suggest that you would use side-chaining a lot more if it wasn't such a bitch to set up?

Side Chaining in Tracktion:

Wrap the compressor in a rack like so:



The key track should be set up like this:



The signal track like this:



This isn't true stereo as the Acuma plugs only have a single side-chain input, but the principle would be the same for a plug that did, eg: the Golden Audio Channel. (I had these screenshots already: couldn't be bothered making fresh stereo versions. )

Yea, you're right about the compression. I would have to adjust both tracks. As for the side chaining use comment, well met my friend, that was the perfect thing to say and funny as well. I really do see the benefits of Tracktion, I just hope that you can see why delay compensation is a big deal for me as far as work flow goes. It really is the only reason I am not switching over right now so I really hope it gets taken care of. From the looks of my poll it looks like a few people agree with me. Anyway, that's all I have.

[valley]

full pdc outisde of racks is important, and I'm sure is being taken care of.

Currently pdc works fine as an insert, and as such you can set up PDC compensated sends just fine.

There is no compensation currently though when a rack is shared across two tracks that have differing latency requirements already. This is what needs fixing.

Supporting full PDC at the modular level inside racks is not, I suspect, likely to be a priority. It is not necessary for day to day usage, would require a lot of extra UI to allow the user to see what was happening inside the rack, and would probably not be easy to add.

[pw]

full pdc outisde of racks is important, and I'm sure is being taken care of.

Currently pdc works fine as an insert, and as such you can set up PDC compensated sends just fine.

There is no compensation currently though when a rack is shared across two tracks that have differing latency requirements already. This is what needs fixing.

Supporting full PDC at the modular level inside racks is not, I suspect, likely to be a priority. It is not necessary for day to day usage, would require a lot of extra UI to allow the user to see what was happening inside the rack, and would probably not be easy to add.

'ears, perhaps you will accept valley's explanation of where PDC does not work with racks?

[IIRs]

'ears, perhaps you will accept valley's explanation of where PDC does not work with racks?

Of course! I have already stated that you have to follow a few rules and that in some scenarios there is no PDC at all.. that is the price you currently have to pay for the flexibility you have to route anything anywhere. For me at least, this is a price worth paying.

[pw]

Great . So it is agreed then that it is not a matter of:

What exactly are you trying to do? Racks already have PDC so long as you follow a few simple rules..

but in fact there are definitely some scenarios where PDC absolutely does not work with racks (and send/returns).

[haydxn]

i think that was exactly his point; i.e., if you don't follow the few simple rules, you encounter situations where PDC doesn't work.

[Madness]

As a definate future user of T2 (once it gets a release in my part of the world) I would definately want to know when Im going to suffer Delay\Latency.

Would be really nice if some one could do a cut and paste of the posts by 'ears where he outlines these "rules". Im sure I have missed these posts and have just stumbled on this one

It could be a sticky and called,

"T2 PDC Ten Comandments" or something like that!!

Much repect!!

[pw]

i think that was exactly his point; i.e., if you don't follow the few simple rules, you encounter situations where PDC doesn't work.

There are no 'few simple rules'. There are ways that individuals approach racks, and some of those ways do work with full PDC, and some don't (two methods feature in the manual and from what I recall, there is no mention of PDC in regards to these methods).

But, with all ways of using racks, PDC does not work in the situations clearly and succintly put by valley above. So, while it might be a matter of word play, I find that a comment like the 'rules' one as a response to someone's query folds a more complex situation into a simple response.

So, I agree with Madness- we need a 10 commandments for PDC in Tracktion to avoid these threads and confusions.

[djsubject]

There is no compensation currently though when a rack is shared across two tracks that have differing latency requirements already. This is what needs fixing.

OK correct me if i am roung!!

do you mean that if you for EG; have a multi out vsti playing over 3 tracks, track 1,kik track 2, snere, track 3, hi hat,

now if you load a plugin that needs PDC IE; UAD-1 plugin it will set that track out of sink.

is that what was ment or did i get it roung?

if it is what was ment then this can be fixed by going to the settings page & back, after that all pdc is correct! (for me any way)

the only non workaroundable problems i have with pdc are with the T2 sends & if i load 2 plugins that need pdc in 1 rack


Subject

[valley]

OK correct me if i am roung!!

do you mean that if you for EG; have a multi out vsti playing over 3 tracks, track 1,kik track 2, snere, track 3, hi hat,

now if you load a plugin that needs PDC IE; UAD-1 plugin it will set that track out of sink.

if the uad plug is placed *after* the rack on one of your three tracks then *all* tracks should inherit the latency of the UAD bearing track. This currently doesn't seem to be happening.