THE VIDEO

[pw]

Completely insulting Tracktion and giving no specific examples of your nonsense. I mean Laden with bugs and issues is a ridiculus thing to say about something as stable as Tracktion. And at the same time you say it in a completely distructive way. Not "hoping for help" . (such a drama queen)

Bin Laden? He's hiding in Tracktion's code!

...but only slightly more seriously, how do you insult a software rpogram?

[headquest]

Completely insulting Tracktion and giving no specific examples of your nonsense. I mean Laden with bugs and issues is a ridiculus thing to say about something as stable as Tracktion. And at the same time you say it in a completely distructive way. Not "hoping for help" . (such a drama queen)

Actually I praised Tracktion in that - and many - thread. But I pointed out to the person making the enquiry that of the two sequencers he had been recommended I would personally go with Live 4, and suggested that he do more research on the subject to check which would work best. I think that's OK advice to give, but that you only picked up on the "negative" part of it.

You stated that you completed a 50 minute project in Live like it was a big accomplishment that could never be done in Tracktion.

No, I specifically responded to another post in which it was implied that Live isn't suitable for "finishing anything". I was merely pointing out that, for me at least, Live is a capable piece of software in which I can and have finished tracks off. I didn't actually mention Tracktion in that specific post. I responding to a point about Live. Is it OK for me to do that without being attacked the next time?

So I had to sonn you and make it clear that Tracktion is capable of much more than that

...and to clear up any misunderstanding on your part, I responded immediately by pointing out that over the last two years I have completed lots of music in Tracktion (and Reason), including some paid for tracks. Yet you continued "having a go at me" every time I posted anywhere for the rest of the day!

[headquest]

you're missing the point of the sentence; it's not "T was designed from the bottom up" it's "the "revolutionary" aspect of T is that it is designed right from the bottom up - powerful economical and consistent.". He's not saying that Tracktion was merely designed from the bottom up, of course that doesn't hold much. What's being said is that it was designed on the fundamental principles of being consistent to the user, economical (cheap!) and downright powerful with minimal effort.

Thanks for the pointer haydxn. I still not sure that I understand how this is really any different to Live/Reason/etc, as I think they were designed to be powerful and consistent too (though not so cheap, granted!) I guess I'll let it pass though

I don't think this is really all about negativity. There's not a single thing wrong with what jules has said in the past, and it's a fine reason to start working on a new different way of doing things. He doesn't like the way sequencers did their thing, so he set out to make a program that did things differently. Most of us keen users felt the same, hence the switch to Tracktion - it's just more like the sequencer we want to use. There's nothing wrong with disliking other sequencers - everyone has a preference. It's equally valid to not like Tracktion's way of working. There isn't anything morally unsound about letting people know that it's different; if people have a hard time with other sequencers and dislike their operation, then it's a good thing that mackie are being clear about their opinion. If people don't like other sequencers, then it's likely that Tracktion would appeal to them, and it's perfectly fair for mackie to suggest that.

I agree with most of what your saying there, and that's certainly what atracted ME to Tracktion . I struggled immensely with the workflow in Cubase SX1 (which is what I was on prior to Tracktion), and it seemed to me Tracktion was a fantastic improvement. I think that the design of Tracktion is absolutely amazing/wonderful. It's simply the issues in T2 that are presently holding me back from giving it my wholehearted praise

[rich_h]

By God, what a tedious thread.

[headquest]

Completely insulting Tracktion and giving no specific examples of your nonsense. I mean Laden with bugs and issues is a ridiculus thing to say about something as stable as Tracktion. And at the same time you say it in a completely distructive way. Not "hoping for help" . (such a drama queen).

The issues which are giving me grief (after being a real advocate for Tracktion in the past) are:

- I can't record audio without clicks/pops in the new version, even though the soundcard setting/etc are the same as I used successfully in T1
- Very sluggish GUI updates, as reported by others elsewhere
- Live 4 (which, yes, I love!) doesn't work for me as a Rewire slave within T2 (it worked fine in T1). Causes total system crashes.
- The rendering issues dealt with elsewhere are disconcerting to say the least
- Issues inherited from T1 and not sorted despite many requests from users: MIDI note drop, Rewire bug, various VST incompatabilities, Final Mix settings lost on save, timestretch leads to bad artefacts, some issues with PDC, issues with bouncing audio and losing stuff, etc
- Missing features - inflexible/limited freeze function imho
- A personal preference, but I don't actually rate the new MIDI editor that highly when compared to others... I'm not even sure I prefer it to T1. In particular the floating toolbar really annoys me.

I have sought help politely for all these issues. In most cases the more helpful Tracktioneers have been great, trying to get to the bottom of things and find solutions. You weren't there offering help though, so far as I remember

On the plus side, I still think that the overall design of Tracktion is the best linear sequencer I have come across . Also I very much like the new Mackie effects and colour schemes!

Having completed all those projects of yours, you presumably haven't experienced the same problems as I have, and I'm pleased to hear that. We obviously work differently I still think though that potential Tracktion customers would be advised to test out the software carefully to make sure these issues don't affect them before parting with their money

As for you goading me elsewhere, saying that you probably "know Live better than me", well I wouldn't know (or even care, unless you are prepared to share your expertise in a constructive way).

[semiquaver]

headquest: I think the basic problem has to do with why we are here in this forum: to discuss tracktion, solve each-others problems and to communicate feature requests and bug reports to the developers. Deciding whether T is worth it or not, or whether one should switch to another platform is not the project. Despite the occasional testimonial, I don't think that advocacy pro or con is the purpose of the forum.

by "designed right" from the bottom up, I meant designed correctly from the start as opposed to sequencers that has been "revised" into modernity like DP (my previous host). In fairness I don't think Live falls into that category and although I don't find it usefull as I am a linear writer I admire it as well. Nor sis I mean for Reason to be on the short end of comparison - it ihas a different purpose. But I also meant that basic decisions in Ts design seem to me right from the start: wyswyg - if you see two clips on a track, the track plays two clips. also the types of object - clip, track, filter are flexible - tracks can host any kind of clip - filters can effect audio midi or both and are freely orderable - clips can host filters etc. Finally the efficiency and flexibility of the basic scheme mean that the program is light which just feels right.

OK I like T and its design - its what I want to use. I want all bugs to be resolved and a small handfull of features that would be useful. Then I want T to survive and thrive. That is why I don't welcome negative *evaluations* (as opposed to criticisms) of T here.

[headquest]

headquest: I think the basic problem has to do with why we are here in this forum: to discuss tracktion, solve each-others problems and to communicate feature requests and bug reports to the developers. Deciding whether T is worth it or not, or whether one should switch to another platform is not the project. Despite the occasional testimonial, I don't think that advocacy pro or con is the purpose of the forum.

That's a fair point semiquaver, and I agree. The Live/Tracktion comparrison actually arose over on the general KVR forum, and came about because a newcomer requested advice on which sequencer host would offer best ease of use. The discussion that ensued mostly revolved around Live and Tracktion as obvious choices... and things went from there.

I suspose that underlying this is the fact that the original RMS user forum is hosted here at KVR, which obviously caters for the users of nearly all major audio software (ProTools and Reason seem to be the main exclusions, so far as I can see). On the Mackie forum (or Ableton, for that matter) you see these debates far less frequently.

by "designed right" ...etc.

Thanks for the explanation, and in fact I pretty much agree with everything you are saying semiquaver. The only point I don't think I go along with is the notion that Tracktion is somehow unique or revolutionary in this respect. In my opinion I think that there are a few others who, in the last 5 years or so, have significantly changed the scene and taken on the old-timers.

Like you, I think that the design paradigm of Tracktion is great. And I really want it to succeed, too, but based on excellence, not simply hype. If the issues that most people admit are there can only be resolved... then I think that Ableton Live and Mackie Tracktion deserve to stand shoulder to shoulder as the two great sequencers of this decade

(disclaimer: Then again, I happily admit that there are others such as eXT and Podium that I'm not too familiar with. It will be interesting to see what impact they have if/when they emerge from the "underground" )

[braj]

I love T, I love Live, but I'd say Live is easier to use than T2 IMO. Doing very simple stuff in T is easy, but some stuff you need to RTFM to figure out (even seemingly simple stuff sometimes), and Live4 I figured out completely by using it. (with the caveat of having previous sequencer knowledge). Though it contains probably the best tutorial included with a DAW, you really don't need it IMO.

What does this have to do with the price of Coke in Guam?

Don't blame me if you've got a coke habit

[valley]

A couple of months on this forum is enough to drive anyone to the hard stuff...

[diverdee]

snort vim instead - it's a lot cheaper & cleans out your sinuses a treat.

[Lunch Money]

By God, what a tedious thread.

Word.

[AD80]

I love T, I love Live, but I'd say Live is easier to use than T2 IMO. Doing very simple stuff in T is easy, but some stuff you need to RTFM to figure out (even seemingly simple stuff sometimes), and Live4 I figured out completely by using it. (with the caveat of having previous sequencer knowledge). Though it contains probably the best tutorial included with a DAW, you really don't need it IMO.

What does this have to do with the price of Coke in Guam?

Don't blame me if you've got a coke habit

Hay I'm working on it ok .

[AD80]

- I can't record audio without clicks/pops in the new version, even though the soundcard setting/etc are the same as I used successfully in T1
- Very sluggish GUI updates, as reported by others elsewhere
- Live 4 (which, yes, I love!) doesn't work for me as a Rewire slave within T2 (it worked fine in T1). Causes total system crashes.
- The rendering issues dealt with elsewhere are disconcerting to say the least
- Issues inherited from T1 and not sorted despite many requests from users: MIDI note drop, Rewire bug, various VST incompatabilities, Final Mix settings lost on save, timestretch leads to bad artefacts, some issues with PDC, issues with bouncing audio and losing stuff, etc
- Missing features - inflexible/limited freeze function imho
- A personal preference, but I don't actually rate the new MIDI editor that highly when compared to others... I'm not even sure I prefer it to T1. In particular the floating toolbar really annoys me.

Thats what you call "heavy ladden with bugs and issues"??

1) Never happens on my system. So most likeley its system specific.

2) GUI is snappy like T1 over here. See #1.

3) Bug

4) Already documented bug being worked on.

5) These things were already there when you "loved" T1 so whats with the attacks now? They're all recognized and are gonna be fixed in future updates.

6) Missing features? Every sequencer has missing features until its perfect for everybody. Which will never happen.

7) Thats just silly. You couldnt even drag the lenghth of multiple notes in T1. T2 is much improved.

Stop trolling!

[AD80]

It's simply the issues in T2 that are presently holding me back from giving it my wholehearted praise

Oh no, will Tracktion survive without your wholehearted praise? I hope so.

I know it doesnt derserve your wholehearted praise, but can you atleast stop jabbing it at every opportunity?

[jalapeno]

AD80 - the only thing I'd take issue with in your "wind your neck-in" treatise above is.

5) These things were already there when you "loved" T1 so whats with the attacks now? They're all recognized and are gonna be fixed in future updates.

I agree they're recognised, but I've not seen anything to the effect that the problems inherited from T1 are being addressed, or any committment that they will be addressed in the foreseeable future.

I do understand that committing to hard dates or release increments for software fixes is techie suicide. Also as soon as Jules or anyone says "We're on to it" there will be incessant "Are we there yet" Groundhogging, but it is still a bit shabby to leave the hardy perennial bugs laying about. <end troll/whine> IMHO