MIDI in--->MIDI out--->Record in

[Frippertronix]

How many of you send MIDI in real time into Tracktion 2, then out to analog gear, then bring the analog input from the outbard stuff back in and record it w/ processing?

Any of you get latency and/or CPU issues when you do this?

I haven't done a lot of real time MIDI editing while triggering outboard gear or tried running my outboard gear from my DAW. I've mostly done that kind of thing w/ VSTi, but I'd like to do the same things with my analog synths.

Is this a pretty common practice?

Dave

[droolmaster0]

How many of you send MIDI in real time into Tracktion 2, then out to analog gear, then bring the analog input from the outbard stuff back in and record it w/ processing?

Any of you get latency and/or CPU issues when you do this?

I haven't done a lot of real time MIDI editing while triggering outboard gear or tried running my outboard gear from my DAW. I've mostly done that kind of thing w/ VSTi, but I'd like to do the same things with my analog synths.

Is this a pretty common practice?

Dave

I've been trying that kind of thing - MIDI in from p3 sequencer, then out to various synths drum machines. I did run into the following issue, which was confirmed today by Mackie support. This may or may not be relevant or helpful to your thread - but I've JUST had this verified to me, and may come up for others.

What I wanted to do was split the MIDI in from the sequencer, and send different channels to different external synths (and also vst synths, etc). However there is no way, entirely within Tracktion, apparently, to split up the midi ins and midi outs like this.

Any particular MIDI port (the p3 in this case, can only be assigned to one track. So - how would I send channel one to this device on port 1, channel 2 to another device, etc.

Well, I figured that I could use the rack filter. And, indeed it seems like it would work (the black midi cables in the rack filter theoretically sum all of the inputs from tracks it is assigned to, and by using channel filter plug ins I thought I could manage it. However, I ran into severe issues - these can be seen in the simplest case - assign one midi input through a rack filter to a track midi output. It sends the data through twice apparently - just doesn't know how to deal with it.

Now, without splitting up the midi inputs like this, it should work ok. I was able to send data out to either an Evolver, or an XD5, and bring it back through the audio interface and use vst effects on it without a hitch. I didn't notice any cpu issues (since you're using external synths, you should be saving some cpu, I'd guess), and the latency seemed acceptable, though I got bogged down in the above frustration. And I didn't try recording. Never got that far.

Gosh, that was long winded, wasn't it? Well, not as bad as it was before I deleted some stuff.

[IIRs]

@ Frippertronix: yes, I do it all the time with my Micro Modular, and (increasingly rarely) with my H/W sampler.. make sure you run the time adjust 'auto detect' option for the input you intend to record, and latency shouldn't be an issue. I would suggest zooming the display right out before recording as screen redraws can sometimes affect external MIDI timing..

@ droolmaster: check the 'Essential Utilities for Tracktion' sticky at the top of this forum, and grab the MIDI plugs, one of which will filter MIDI by channel (IIRC)

[Frippertronix]

Thanks to both of you for the tips. I only have two outboard synths that I tend to run together in unison so splitting MIDI isn't a big deal for me---I just daisy chain them.

Latency would be a bigger problem since I monitor through my soundcard and don't have a mixer in between my outboard gear and my card, so I would be playing through this setup, not just running sequences.

IIR's---if you do any live tracking with your setup, what kind of monitor latency do you you hear while playing?

[droolmaster0]

@ droolmaster: check the 'Essential Utilities for Tracktion' sticky at the top of this forum, and grab the MIDI plugs, one of which will filter MIDI by channel (IIRC)

ok (I've been using that) - but it still won't work. Imagine the p3 sequencer at the input end, sending channel 1 and 2. If I don't use the rack filter, I'm limited to sending both channels through one track - so how would I split the channels to multiple output devices on different MIDI ports?

So - the problem becomes that sending the midi through the rack filter, and using the channel filter above (which works great for what it does) doesn't work, because the rack filter is just not built to send external MIDI. It gets 'confused' They replicated this at Mackie and confirmed my analysis.

But, if I'm misunderstanding something, I'd love to figure it out - I'd love this to work. Right now I'm trying to get around this by Rewiring in other software, but that isn't optimal.

[IIRs]

IIR's---if you do any live tracking with your setup, what kind of monitor latency do you you hear while playing?

I don't tend to play synths live with the audio routed back through Tracktion.. if I did the latency would depend on my souondcard settings. Mine can get as low as about 2 ms, but uses less cpu if I run it a bit higher.. so I usually do.

[IIRs]

@ droolmaster: have you tried splitting your MIDI by channel before it reaches Tracktion using MIDI OX or something similar?

[droolmaster0]

@ droolmaster: have you tried splitting your MIDI by channel before it reaches Tracktion using MIDI OX or something similar?

Well - I'm not saying that that this is undoable - I'm just saying that it's undoable from within Tracktion entirely. Yeah - that should work, as does doing it within a Rewired program. Personally, I like to keep things as simple as possible for the given task. The whole idea of Tracktion is that it's supposed to make the work flow easier.

Right now I'm finding that unreliable MIDI clock, and the inflexibility of MIDI routing to be pretty big obstacles. But would I rather use Tracktion than Cubase....yeah. So, for right now I'll just have to find more complicated solutions.

The explanation that I got from Mackie about the inflexibility of the MIDI routing was that, in their effort to keep it simple, they thought that users would get confused. I dunno. Look at the audio/midi routing in Bidule for instance. I think that it's actually easier than the Rack Filter, and it's considerably more flexible. Of course, there's really no sequencing, audio or MIDI in Bidule...

[Frippertronix]

IIR's---if you do any live tracking with your setup, what kind of monitor latency do you you hear while playing?

I don't tend to play synths live with the audio routed back through Tracktion.. if I did the latency would depend on my souondcard settings. Mine can get as low as about 2 ms, but uses less cpu if I run it a bit higher.. so I usually do.

Yea, it will probably be just an "average" latency---still manageable. I was just wondering, with so much task sharing going on with both the processor and sound card, if there would be any weirdness issues with performance.

Whelp, guess I'll just have to crawl back behind that rack and start swapping cables around to find out.

[IIRs]

monitoring an input in realtime won't use much cpu, unles you add hungry effects.. you will want to avoid any plugs that add their own latency, eg: SIR. (This can't be compensated for in real-time)

[Frippertronix]

monitoring an input in realtime won't use much cpu, unles you add hungry effects.. you will want to avoid any plugs that add their own latency, eg: SIR. (This can't be compensated for in real-time)

I was thining more of using so many ins and out at the same time, both on the card and in Tracktion. MIDI in and out, audio in and out, all simultaneously. Just wondered if all this combined would tax the system and/or software too much.

[IIRs]

Just wondered if all this combined would tax the system and/or software too much.

It shouldn't be a problem.. try it!

[Frippertronix]

Just wondered if all this combined would tax the system and/or software too much.

It shouldn't be a problem.. try it!

I'm getting up the courage...

[Madness]

I think MIDI YOKE will be the only option for this kind of work for a while yet. If only I could figure out how to set it all up without spending hours and hours on it. So far, Im still using T1 to expreiment with multiple channels of MIDI. If I need solid Timing, Good Midi Editing, I head back over to Cubase. Which really sucks, I would much rather dump it once and for all...I cannot for love or money get MIDI Files in and out of Tracktion effectively. Im guessing it works but the MIDI impementation in TRACTION isn't too crash hot. Its a big deal for me as I have MS2000, Virus, Proteus, Kaos Pad, Filter factory, all of which I need to automate and control in various ways using MIDI.