The "Bad Bad Rendering Voodoo" Opinion Poll

[Frippertronix]

I'm polling to see what people think of my possible use of T2 rendering for my projects, in light of the bad bad scary Rendering Bug. I'm polling because my material may not be susceptible.

Almost all of my material is fairly highly compressed and, though I do some acoustic sample work and some acoustic guitar, there isn't a lot of quiet space between notes, but there are certainly areas where the notes decay to some degree between phrases---they just aren't long, drawn out decays.

About the only long decay would most likely be at the very end of the song, if it isn't a fadeout/outro, it would most likely have a last note or chord and then a verb tail die out. That last point is the main thing I'm concerned about because, as I said, there isn't a lot of empty space (with long verb tails) within the body of each piece. I can use a VST recorder but the render is always more convenient, except maybe on the final mix cut.

So please answer my poll and either put my fears to rest about rendering or make me wery wery ascared to use Tracktion 2 rendering.

[Frippertronix]

One thing, this is not the bug where tracks have been pitched differently, I don't do that at this point.

[semiquaver]

I have been using the render even after doing the tests etc. There's nothing I can detect at a listening volume.

[mandolarian]

I think a poll will not solve this for you. Try both approaches, rendered and Tapeit'd. Can you hear a difference? Is this a big audiophile label release? Is your professional rep on the line?

This 'bug' has been around since T1 and lurks around the threshold of 16bits in the low-rent dither neighbourhood. Some will say you can't hear it in a busy mix because it is swamped by all the high level stuff. Yet others claim to hear big differences in dither on the same mix. Dither is usually applied on the lowest bit of a 16 bit recording, -90dB, right around where the render 'bug' does its truncation dance. (Wish I could find a real room with a noise floor that low!)

The worst part about this bug is that we know about it. We put the psyched into Psychoacoustics. Even if we couldn't hear it before, we're more likely to now. Even if we don't hear it now, we know it's there stealing precious resolution from our precious tone. Oh, the anguish!

The simple solution is make this a cassette tape ONLY release and not worry about anything below -40dB! And then charge more for the CD Remix in T2.1

If the tunes are good, the performance is great and the production is not hideous and you had fun doing it do you really want to sweat over the least significant bit?

[valley]

If the tunes are good, the performance is great and the production is not hideous and you had fun doing it do you really want to sweat over the least significant bit?

I've got a couple of commericial CDs that are effectively 13-14bit recordings.

Compilations, in particular, are often *very* badly mastered. It doesn't seem to stop them filling the CD charts though.

[aldi]

Compilations, in particular, are often containing *very* badly made music. It doesn't seem to stop them filling the CD charts though.

[valley]

it's a bit like a betabug, only less colourful, and a little less likely to be invited to fashionable parties.

[multree]

I voted: hu??? cuz I don't know what susceptible means

[multree]

I just called you tripperfronix in my head - no offence... just wanted to give you an inside scope of me head - oh man it's getting late... going to bed now...

the new NickHornby book is waiting... A LONG WAY DOWN

[Lunch Money]

I don't think the bug is irrelevant, but I think it does depend a bit on your material and your intended audience. Keep in mind, that fading out reverb tails won't help, because all you're doing is changing the point at which the sound transitions toward silence. My understanding is that the bug will still getcha when a signal drops below -90dB. The reason reverb tails are mentioned so often is because they're one of the only things that we allow to taper out over such a long period of time. Many of our other signals don't go from -90dB to silence slowly enough to notice.

At least, that's my understanding.

Greg

[multree]

oh and here are some more I really like... but german ones:

Schmopfkerzen
Porgensüppchen
Balzmier
oder auch Beizenwier

naja egal ich geh im Bett

[multree]

nite Greg *wavesgoodbye*

[multree]

yeah "munch loney"

[multree]

btw what is a rendering bug?

[Frippertronix]

I don't think the bug is irrelevant, but I think it does depend a bit on your material and your intended audience. Keep in mind, that fading out reverb tails won't help, because all you're doing is changing the point at which the sound transitions toward silence. My understanding is that the bug will still getcha when a signal drops below -90dB. The reason reverb tails are mentioned so often is because they're one of the only things that we allow to taper out over such a long period of time. Many of our other signals don't go from -90dB to silence slowly enough to notice.

At least, that's my understanding.

Greg

I could always use a VST recorder on the last mixdown and have a fadeout for that, thus, only individual tracks previously rendered to conserve CPU might have The Bug, but the last take w/ fadeout wouldn't because it would fade down before the end of the tails on those previously rendered tracks.