Some in-depth questions about Receptor

[Compyfox]

Hi!

I'm doing some researches on Receptor and the competitor "Plugzilla" (which seems to bite the dust badly compared to the new OS of Receptor, and the stronger Hardware). A couple of things could be cleared through the official page and of course through KVR, but I still have some questions.


First of all, I'm from germany. So it kinda interests me if I can get the Receptor and it's upgrade possibilties here too or do I have to order it in the USA with an US account (what I definately do not have)?


Then what about the Receptor itself. I know that it has an Athlon 2500 CPU (that's around 2,1GHz real?) in it and can be upgraded to an Athlon 3000 (2,8 real?). According to the Sound on Sound article in May, the System has a minimum setup of 256MB RAM (however that is freely upgradeable up to 2GB) and a 40GB HDD (which isn't upgradeable by myself due to the special OS).

The quiestion is, how far can I still max it out (RAM, HDD space) by which additional costs? And how does the "upgrading" work. Do I order it simply over you and say "upgrade to max"? And what about later upgrades if I have the Receptor already integrated in my studio. Is that possible too (RAM should be possible if hey aren't upgraded yet)? If so, how?


Then there's the thing with the limited outputs. Okay OS1.2 can now use the ADAT (10out), the Stereo Bus and the stereo S/PDIF port (with routing). Due to the possibilities with "UniWire" even 16 channels (free routable?) though only on a digital level, not for outboard. But what about if I connect an EDIROL UA101, the new USB2.0 device with 10in/out, to the Receptor. Does it work? Can I use these outputs for a hardware mixer? (I don't have ADAT though, not yet)

On Musikmesse 2004 one of the main developers (I guess it was Mr. Lanser itself) told me that there're some deals to clear but Edirol might offer some possibilities. As mainly Hardware user in a studio I'm really looking forward to this - if it's possible.


Then as "rack user": Can I get the Receptor with "Rack Mounts" to screw it into my rack - best without additional costs? Or are they already included?


"UniWire":
I pity that I couldn't go to Musikmesse 2005, but I watched the video from Sonic State with the UniWire VSTi. Though I kinda don't get it yet. The first slider was for chosing the correct Receptor in the net. But what is the second slider for? And do I have 16mono (or 8 stereo) busses for the Receptor in my host mixer.

The Receptor runs on 100MBit (unless there's an upgrade existing), but what about the latency. In the video it was "compensated" by the host. But if a host can't do that, what rates to I have to expect? Though seeing this on 100MBit is already very outstanding (8-9MB/s for transfer? Isn't there some data reduction involved?)

In the Sound on Sound article I've also seen the configuration pannel. So my Q with DHCP if it's needed or if I could use a static IP instead has cleared itself.


Sorry if this was a bit much. I'm kinda uber-curious.
Thanks in advance for taking your time answering.


EDIT:
Removed the Halion3 question as it doesn't work on Receptor yet.

[Compyfox]

Uhm... anybody from the creators who can answer my questions?

[DanTimis]

Uhm... anybody from the creators who can answer my questions?

Hi Compyfox,

We try to answer very promptly any questions, but it is the 4th of July, it's a long holiday weekend here in the US, and people are either out-of-town or celebrating. It is also a 9 hour difference between Germany and California, so if you post something in the morning, by the time we wake up, go to work, and answer, it will already be late evening in Germany.

I am a developer, so I can answer only the technical questions. Someone else will answer your international sales questions in the next day or two.

Then what about the Receptor itself. I know that it has an Athlon 2500 CPU (that's around 2,1GHz real?) in it and can be upgraded to an Athlon 3000 (2,8 real?). According to the Sound on Sound article in May, the System has a minimum setup of 256MB RAM (however that is freely upgradeable up to 2GB) and a 40GB HDD (which isn't upgradeable by myself due to the special OS).

The question is, how far can I still max it out (RAM, HDD space) by which additional costs? And how does the "upgrading" work. Do I order it simply over you and say "upgrade to max"? And what about later upgrades if I have the Receptor already integrated in my studio. Is that possible too (RAM should be possible if hey aren't upgraded yet)? If so, how?

It is possible to upgrade the CPU, but it is risky because it is very easy to damage it. In general we do not recommend it. Maybe someone else at Muse can give you more details.

The maximum RAM is 2 GB and it is very easy to upgrade. You can either buy your own RAM or have us install more RAM for you. You can also add more RAM later.

The hard drive has to be formated by us, so you cannot buy and install your own drive. You can either order from us a Receptor with a bigger hard drive, or we can send you a bigger hard drive that has been formated specifically for your Receptor, and you can replace the 40 GB yourself with the one we send you.

Then there's the thing with the limited outputs. Okay OS1.2 can now use the ADAT (10out), the Stereo Bus and the stereo S/PDIF port (with routing). Due to the possibilities with "UniWire" even 16 channels (free routable?) though only on a digital level, not for outboard. But what about if I connect an EDIROL UA101, the new USB2.0 device with 10in/out, to the Receptor. Does it work? Can I use these outputs for a hardware mixer? (I don't have ADAT though, not yet)

On Musikmesse 2004 one of the main developers (I guess it was Mr. Lanser itself) told me that there're some deals to clear but Edirol might offer some possibilities. As mainly Hardware user in a studio I'm really looking forward to this - if it's possible.

Currently, we do not support any external USB audio devices. So you can get stereo analog outputs, stereo S/PDIF outputs, 8 ADAT outputs, or very soon UniWire. If you do not have an ADAT interface you get only 2 stereo pairs or UniWire.

Then as "rack user": Can I get the Receptor with "Rack Mounts" to screw it into my rack - best without additional costs? Or are they already included?

the rack ears are included.

"UniWire":
I pity that I couldn't go to Musikmesse 2005, but I watched the video from Sonic State with the UniWire VSTi. Though I kinda don't get it yet. The first slider was for chosing the correct Receptor in the net. But what is the second slider for? And do I have 16mono (or 8 stereo) busses for the Receptor in my host mixer.

What you saw in the video was an early prototype. Now we have a better interface that makes it easier to understand. In that demo, one slider was for choosing a Receptor if you have more than one. The second slider was for selecting one of the 16 Receptor channels.

The Receptor runs on 100MBit (unless there's an upgrade existing), but what about the latency. In the video it was "compensated" by the host. But if a host can't do that, what rates to I have to expect? Though seeing this on 100MBit is already very outstanding (8-9MB/s for transfer? Isn't there some data reduction involved?)

It depends on the buffer size and on how many tracks you are using. It can be between 5 ms for a small buffer size and a small number of tracks, and up to 20 ms for a large buffer size and many tracks.

[Compyfox]

Hello.

We try to answer very promptly any questions, but it is the 4th of July, it's a long holiday weekend here in the US, and people are either out-of-town or celebrating. It is also a 9 hour difference between Germany and California, so if you post something in the morning, by the time we wake up, go to work, and answer, it will already be late evening in Germany.

Ah... hehe... Still getting used to some "holidays" outside of my country so I didn't know that ID4 is also a holiady. Sorry for my impatience.

I am a developer, so I can answer only the technical questions. Someone else will answer your international sales questions in the next day or two.

That's okay. If someone can help me regarding extra upgrade costs and aviablity here in germany, this would really help.

It is possible to upgrade the CPU, but it is risky because it is very easy to damage it. In general we do not recommend it. Maybe someone else at Muse can give you more details.

Okay... I see the problem here with the special CPU cooler. On the other hand, to what extends is that board upgradeable (CPU technically). Is AMD XP3000 really the limit? Or do you plan to sell a stronger device in the future (well... PC hardware gets old really quick, though the Receptor in it's state should hold for a while due to the customised Linux).

The maximum RAM is 2 GB and it is very easy to upgrade. You can either buy your own RAM or have us install more RAM for you. You can also add more RAM later.

2GB is the upper limit (from the pic I saw in SOS MAR05 it had only 2 slots). Hm... you make me curious. What is the rate of the RAM? DDR233, DDR333 or DDR400? If I may ask of course.

The hard drive has to be formated by us, so you cannot buy and install your own drive. You can either order from us a Receptor with a bigger hard drive, or we can send you a bigger hard drive that has been formated specifically for your Receptor, and you can replace the 40 GB yourself with the one we send you.

That's for sure, due to the OS. What is the HDD size limit so far? In another thread it was 160GB. But due to the constant rising sample packs, 160GB goes down fairly quick. Also, is the branch and RPM into known by chance? Just try to catch some data. A bad habit out of my times as IT Technitian.


Installing both the RAM and HDD is no problem. CPU a bit risky (leave it to MUSE in this case, especially due to the special CPU cooling system). If you send the MUSE with the 40GB still installed I also have the chance to get the special VST/VSTi deals for transfering them from HDD to HDD (backup).

Speaking of which. Can I use the "special deal" VSTs for my PC too or are they bound (also key technically) to the Receptor?

Currently, we do not support any external USB audio devices. So you can get stereo analog outputs, stereo S/PDIF outputs, 8 ADAT outputs, or very soon UniWire. If you do not have an ADAT interface you get only 2 stereo pairs or UniWire.

Hm... anything planned for the future in that case? The Edirol really looks like it was made for the Receptor (if MOTU decides more on USB2.0 too, then maybe even those devices) and I just like the analog mixing, sometimes even prefer it.

"UniWire"...

What you saw in the video was an early prototype. Now we have a better interface that makes it easier to understand. In that demo, one slider was for choosing a Receptor if you have more than one. The second slider was for selecting one of the 16 Receptor channels.

Can we already take a sneek peek on the new VSTi GUI? Like what it's capable of, what we can control with it. Does the VSTi give me the ability to have 16 (mabye more due to FX and Master out) independend stereo channels? Or is there already a release date (if so, when?) set and we just have to wait till then?

It depends on the buffer size and on how many tracks you are using. It can be between 5 ms for a small buffer size and a small number of tracks, and up to 20 ms for a large buffer size and many tracks.

Let's say I run full 16 tracks on UniWire. And a buffer of about 192samples (by 48kHz, that's what's my Terratec EWS88MT running at the moment, too). Does that mean I get a 20-30ms latency at most?

Woha... I have to say that's pretty quick. You found a way to overcome the limited datatransfer of 8-9MB/s by 100MBit (what's the channel limit up/down btw, in stereo channels?). The technology nowadays is outstanding: Skype running by 3kb/s in CD quality, the new "Digital Musician" VST network plugin running flawlessly with highend sound over a simple DSL line, and now even UniWire.

The revolution is coming. 10 years ago we couldn't even dream of that possibilities - now we get them in our lab as easy to use as if we'd fire up a notepad.

Honestly, I can hardly wait to get more infos on UniWire. Especially what routing possibilites I have after using it or if I'm limited in a kind of way.

Thanks again for answering. And have a nice ID4 (at least those who still have it in the USA).

[DanTimis]

It is possible to upgrade the CPU, but it is risky because it is very easy to damage it. In general we do not recommend it. Maybe someone else at Muse can give you more details.

Okay... I see the problem here with the special CPU cooler. On the other hand, to what extends is that board upgradeable (CPU technically). Is AMD XP3000 really the limit? Or do you plan to sell a stronger device in the future (well... PC hardware gets old really quick, though the Receptor in it's state should hold for a while due to the customized Linux).

Currently, it is not possible to replace the motherboard. It is possible to replace the CPU, but it would be at your own risk. If you are experienced with upgrading PC's, you can probably do it yourself. The fastest CPU that would work with the current motherboard is the XP3000. There are no immediate plans to offer a different hardware.

The maximum RAM is 2 GB and it is very easy to upgrade. You can either buy your own RAM or have us install more RAM for you. You can also add more RAM later.

2GB is the upper limit (from the pic I saw in SOS MAR05 it had only 2 slots). Hm... you make me curious. What is the rate of the RAM? DDR233, DDR333 or DDR400? If I may ask of course.

It is PC2700 DDR 333 non-ECC

The hard drive has to be formated by us, so you cannot buy and install your own drive. You can either order from us a Receptor with a bigger hard drive, or we can send you a bigger hard drive that has been formated specifically for your Receptor, and you can replace the 40 GB yourself with the one we send you.

That's for sure, due to the OS. What is the HDD size limit so far? In another thread it was 160GB. But due to the constant rising sample packs, 160GB goes down fairly quick. Also, is the branch and RPM into known by chance? Just try to catch some data. A bad habit out of my times as IT Technitian.

The hard drive has to meet certain requirements for noise, heat, and power. We use Seagate Barracuda 7200 rpm drives. It looks like the 200GB, 250GB, 300GB, and 400GB Seagate Barracuda drives have similar specs as the 160GB drive we recommend. But, we have not tested the higher capacity drives yet. If you are not going to take your Receptor on the road a lot a higher capacity drive might work.

Speaking of which. Can I use the "special deal" VSTs for my PC too or are they bound (also key technically) to the Receptor?

Those authorizations work only on Receptor.

I cannot give you more details about UniWire right now, except that it is coming very soon.

[Robert Karasek]

That's okay. If someone can help me regarding extra upgrade costs and aviablity here in germany, this would really help.

have a try at hyperactive in germany or a distributor in switzerland!

[Compyfox]

DanTimis:
Thanks a lot for the hookup. I guess I let the CPU upgrade by MUSE (if that's possible), get a bigger HDD (yeah, I plan to use the Receptor in a studio, not Live environment - so bigger HDDs should be possible) and upgrade both the HDD and the RAM by myself. Best of both worlds.

But still (regarding the special VST deals on the Receptor) I can copy/move them from one Receptor HDD to another. Or are they only available over the Plugorama homepage?


Well... I knew you would say that regarding "UniWire". But it's totally understandable. I bet there's no release date available either, isn't it?


Robert Karasek:
Hpyeractive? Never heard of it. Switzerland... hm... as far as I can ask them for an upgraded version. I might consider that. But I can wait till the sales departement answers, too. Or someone from the team who might know

[Robert Karasek]

Robert Karasek:
Hpyeractive? Never heard of it. Switzerland... hm... as far as I can ask them for an upgraded version. I might consider that. But I can wait till the sales departement answers, too. Or someone from the team who might know

http://www.hyperactive.de/
in former days we were told that HYPERACTIVE is the german distributor... represented at musikmesse as well

rob

[Compyfox]

Yeah I remember now, but Hyperactive doesn't offer the Receptor. Neither in the product list, not via search on their page.

And no musicstore I know here in my town can order it. Not even Thomann or Musik Produktiv in Köln (and if so, then not with upgrades). Or I'm just plain blind.

[Bryan@MuseResearch]

Hi all

Indeed, Hyperactive is our distributor in Germany. We are doing more and more "custom" Receptors, with different combinations of hard drives and RAM. Should you wish to have a custom Receceptor, please contact your local dealer or distributor and I'm sure they'll be happy to accomodate your needs.

Here is their contact information:

Hyperactive Audiotechnik GmbH
Silberbachstrasse 9
D- 65232 Taunusstein
Germany

Tel: 06128-982327
Fax: 06128-982328
info@hyperactive.de
www.hyperactive.de

In fact, all our distributors are listed here:

http://www.museresearch.com/receptor_in ... butors.php

As far as Germany is concerned, I believe (but I'm not positive) that both AmpTown and Thoman were going to carry Receptor, I remember doing a demo for Bernd at Thoman's synth department, and he had said they had them in stock. Please check with Hyperactive, I'm sure they will be happy to connect you with the dealer in your area that is carrying Receptor.

All the best

Bryan Lanser
VP Business Development
Muse Research

[Compyfox]

Guess I have to ask them then. Anything regarding extra costs, Mr. Lanser? I mean... I wouldn't get a Receptor for 1399USD with maximum upgrades, would I?

Or if they can't input a bigger HDD than 160GB, can I purchase a bigger Seagate Baracuda, send them to MUSE where the OS is put on and I can upgrade my Receptor?


BTW: Thomann offers the Receptor. But the price is a bit high if I may add.

http://www.thomann.de/artikel-169157.html (german page)
Cost: 1699Euro

According to exchange rates the price should be around 1200Euro and not 1699Euro (by 1399USD, the euro is strong atm, exchange chart). Or I'm totally wrong here.


Ah yeah. And thanks for the awesome presentations of Receptor at Musikmesse, Mr. Lancer. Was nice talking to you - a pity that I wasn't there this year too.

[Bryan@MuseResearch]

Hi Compyfox-

Sorry I missed you this year at Messe as well. Maybe next year?

Let me answer your question on the hard drive first: we are offering two configurations of Receptor right now. One has the 40GB drive, and the other has a 160GB drive. Like Dan said, we are looking at other, larger drives, but our concern is how robust these larger capacity drives are when taken on the road. Sadly, the higher the capacity of a drive, the more platters there are, which means the thinner the platters have to be, hence the greater potential for failure, especially as areal densities increase. Of course power consumption and heat are issues with hard drives as well, so that needs to be fully explored before we can release a high capacity drive inside Receptor.

As you may have heard (or will very soon!), there are Receptors on tour with bands like Garbage, U2, Nine Inch Nails, George Duke, etc, and the last thing we want to do is ship out a hard drive that is going to fail.

And now about the pricing. The currency thing is not as straightforward as one might expect:

For example, the $1599 list price (or $1399 street price) in the US does not include taxes, which can be well over 8% in many States. The price in euros, however, _does_ include MSWT, which is, last time I checked was a whopping 16%.

So with Receptor at 1699 euros with MSWT, you're looking at a 1427 euro price without tax, which isn't really that far from the $1399 street price of a Receptor in the US, especially when you take into consideration a more normal exchange rate between the dollar and the Euro.

Now consider this: that 1699 euro price includes not only the 16% tax, but it also includes the shipping of Receptor to Europe (which can cost over $100 to send one unit via air) along with the 10% duties the European Union charges to import a product from the US. All of a sudden, that price isn't looking to high any more, especially considering the fact that you'll get local dealer support and someone you can talk to in German about the product!!!

Anyway, send a mail off to Hyperactive, I'm sure they will help you out in terms of getting the unit you want.

Best

Bryan

[Compyfox]

Thanks again for the hook up.

But back to the thing with the HDD. Well, I'm not a live musician. My Receptor would be integrated into my studio setup. 160GB looks nice but if I look at certain sample packs (EWQL Platinum, VSL, the Extra Choirs, Stylus RMX - however this is moderate with 3GB without extra samples, Halion, BFD, SampleTank XL, etc) you run out of space pretty quick. Even though I want to integrate the Receptor more due to the fact to outsource some synths - but if I have the options, why not.


So... is it still possible to upgrade the HDD in this case? Or can I really say "okay, I get a 400GB HDD by myself and send it to you for an OS installtion".

And still there is the price isse. Not only for germany, but also other countries too. RAM is not that big of a problem I guess. CPU an HDD more. So how much would I pay more for a Receptor with maximum upgrades, or will the price remain the same?


And.. uhm... Yeah... I'm curious about UniWire. When can we get some more infos about it? (hint to a release date?)

[Bryan@MuseResearch]

Hi

I hear you on the HDD thing. If we could be sure that all Receptor customers were only going to keep their Receptors in an airconditioned, shock and vibration free environment, it would make our design tasks alot simpler!

However, we have a certain design goals that we have to meet, so I don't think we can approve a drive for one customer without approving it for all. Sorry about that. We have, in the past, installed a customer's hard drive in a Receptor, but it _must_ be the drive we specify. You would not believe how many drives we've tested, and we have seen an alarming failure rate among some brands, and that is when tested outside of a Receptor! We use only Seagate drives, and we will not install anything else inside a Receptor.

As far as RAM is concerned, we have had good luck with all high quality brands of RAM (Kingston, Patriot, Mushkin, SuperTalent, etc.) that carry lifetime warranties. We don't really want to be in the RAM business, so if you want to install your own, by all means be our guest! The only advantage to buying RAM from us is 1) you know it will work and 2) we will stand behind it completely.

With regard to the price issue, I don't know what to tell you. We don't recommend grey market importing - I bought a product in Germany last time I was over there, because it was cheaper to buy there (hey, it goes both ways, regardless of exchange rate!) and it failed. I contacted the manufacturer in Germany, and as soon as they found out I had imported it myself it was as if I had stolen it - all communication stopped, and I was stuck with a broken product.

Having said that, alot of people buy products from places like Sam Ash.com and Sweetwater,com from overseas. We, like all other manufacturers, discourage this practice for the reasons I gave in my last posting, but the Internet has made the world a much smaller place, and there is no changing that. Its important to understand the reasons why a product is more expensive over there, and taxes, duties, and shipping are a bulk of that, and its also the fact that our distributors also provide support, and they deserve to be compensated for being there if you need them.

And finally, UniWire. We are all very excited about it, and it is working great. It really is amazing to see multiple Receptors connected together, each one a separate entity but working as a team to get the task done. And it is so easy to use, its almost impossible to believe its for real, but I assure you it is (sorry to gush, but I'm really proud of our engineers, and I'm not ashamed to say it!)

UniWire is coming VERY SOON as version 1.4 software. I know, I know, we are just putting out 1.3 software now, but we have always said that Receptor is a platform that will be regularly improved and get new features, and we meant it!

At Messe we said it would be in the summer, and I am pleased to report that the development has gone quite well and it should launch in the next month or so, assuming that all goes well in testing!!!

We'll post the launch info on KVR first, so you will be the first ones to know about it!

Cheers

Bryan

[Compyfox]

However, we have a certain design goals that we have to meet, so I don't think we can approve a drive for one customer without approving it for all. Sorry about that. We have, in the past, installed a customer's hard drive in a Receptor, but it _must_ be the drive we specify. You would not believe how many drives we've tested, and we have seen an alarming failure rate among some brands, and that is when tested outside of a Receptor! We use only Seagate drives, and we will not install anything else inside a Receptor.

Well that's for sure. Okay I try to ask the other way around. Do you plan on testing bigger HDDs for the Receptor for those who want to use it studio-wise? Or at least 200GB, which is a good start too.

Or what about connecting external devices via USB2.0. That wouldn't lower the noise in some cases, but then again raise the capacity (though I can guess that this won't work either due to driver issues as every HDD has it's own drivers and certain VSTi installations).

Another thing that comes to mind in terms of "cooling" are so called HDD coolers. A friend of mine uses them for each HDD he has in his tower. dB-Rate is pretty low if you get good ones, cost around 20bucks extra and can be screwed under the HDD (the place where it's getting hot the most). I guess the only problem here would be that the HDD is pretty much tight installed due to the 2U rack. But this would be a "thing" to lower at least the heat production. Maybe there will be a similar "tube" system as with the CPU? *hint*

If not... Well guess I have to live with the 160GB for now. As long as I still have the option open with "getting a bigger HDD". Seagate of course.


And while we're on it:
I have a rack where it's upper half can be rotated upwards (90 degrees). Okay, PCs are picky if I install them in a rotated position (HDDs, CD-Rs) but what about the Receptor? I guess it's also recommended "not" to install it on a rack if it's not stare or has some stare parts on it (that sets up the unit horizontal and not in a 5-20 degree environment).

With regard to the price issue, I don't know what to tell you. We don't recommend grey market importing...

Well... why not saying "okay you pay 200-300 bucks extra and you get a maxed out Receptor". Like:

"Receptor Standard", 1399USD excl. VAT
"Receptor Extended", 1699USD excl. VAT

The standard one is still the Receptor with the AMD XP2500, 256MB RAM, 40GB HDD. While the extended one is upgraded to AMD XP3000, 2GB RAM, 160GB HDD.

Wouldn't this be a deal or would this kinda mess up the production effort costs and I should better ask my "local distributors" about that and expect to pay around 1999USD excl. VAT?



UniWire again. Heh.
I totally understand the gush on UniWire. It will definately start a revolution. Maybe some other firms will adopt this technolgy, for example for digital mixers or so. Still I'd like to see some possibilities to connect external devices like the Edirol UA-101. I just love my analog mixer. So... "oldschool" and such a different sound. heh.

UniWire is coming VERY SOON as version 1.4 software. I know, I know, we are just putting out 1.3 software now, but we have always said that Receptor is a platform that will be regularly improved and get new features, and we meant it!

At Messe we said it would be in the summer, and I am pleased to report that the development has gone quite well and it should launch in the next month or so, assuming that all goes well in testing!!!

So that means... V1.3 in the next month and around September/October V1.4 with UniWire. Hm... interesting.

We'll post the launch info on KVR first, so you will be the first ones to know about it!

Can hardly wait, but still I have a couple of questions about it. Not in depth how good it'll work (I guess we get that out pretty soon) but more like the basic stuff.

And I guess the most important thing is:
Will UniWire (especially the VSTi) cost something extra or get all registered Receptor users the VSTi included with the new software update?

I just wait for any other infos about it. But this is bugging my head for a couple of days now.


Thanks again for the quick answering. The support from MUSE is really great. Unlike some other... competitors or software developers I know.