as many of you may remember, or not... i don't get into midi very often and am quite confused by it most of the time.
i have a client that has had three drummers quit on him due to school related issues and travel, within the last seven weeks. wow! so we've rescheduled this demo recording session quite a few times.
he now wants to just do the drums from midi files. he's gonna program midi files and send them to me. im gonna then figure out how we can use them in the session.
my question is: with an alesis sr-16 drum machine, can i use these midi files and then assign whatever sound from the internal library that i want to assign to each drum track? i.e. can i change the sound of individual drums within the hardware and then play the midi file and change the individual drum sounds to taste? and how would this relate to tracktion when it comes down to recording the audio out of the unit? i want to do it in audio fashion so i can put some plugs on it and so forth...i need to learn how to do this pretty quick, so this is an emergency call to my friends in this forum to help out and get me going on the right path.
hope this is not an inappropriate question. i don't know who else to go to for this. help me out guys. im committed to this guys demo. he's been paying me quite a bit of cash to pay off my equipment for a while, on other projects.
hopefully this won't be a limitation or a hinderance. other than using a drum machine... we usually track real drummers for his demos. so i guess he's going to save money on session musicians and time this time around. i just need to figure out how to get this working.
this project starts after the 10th of august, so i kinda have a little bit of time to learn this shit and apply it, should it be able to work in the way i mentioned above. if not, we'll have to get a session musician.
a physical drum machine
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- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
i dont use much hardware (and certainly no MIDI out stuff) so pardon if this is a silly question / suggestion ...
... would it not be easier in the long run (than doing the MIDI out > alesis SR16 > audio in > VST effects signal path) to sample the SR16 and then map those samples (i understand from a quick google the SR16 has at least limited velocity layers) in whatever VST sampler you have ???
slainte
rob
... would it not be easier in the long run (than doing the MIDI out > alesis SR16 > audio in > VST effects signal path) to sample the SR16 and then map those samples (i understand from a quick google the SR16 has at least limited velocity layers) in whatever VST sampler you have ???
slainte
rob-
- The Teach
- 8273 posts since 23 Jul, 2002 from flatness
(or even grab the free sfz sampler and the free (but very VERY good) nskit 7 soundfont)
(assuming youre after the sound of a real kit and not electronic drums)
slainte
rob
(assuming youre after the sound of a real kit and not electronic drums)
slainte
rob-
- KVRian
- 1398 posts since 9 Dec, 2002
Short answer: yes, you can change the sounds in the drum machine to find usable ones.
But like others said, would be easier to do it fully in software. Not to mention there's a good number of free samples around for every style (like the aforementioned NSkit 7 and Kingston's 'Riders - shameless plug).
I should have a SR-16 set stashed somewhere if you need those exact sounds.
Regards,
JMH
But like others said, would be easier to do it fully in software. Not to mention there's a good number of free samples around for every style (like the aforementioned NSkit 7 and Kingston's 'Riders - shameless plug).
I should have a SR-16 set stashed somewhere if you need those exact sounds.
Regards,
JMH
Now available with added Inherently Suspect Justification!
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- KVRer
- 1 posts since 1 Jul, 2005 from Chicago Area
Or you could hire a drummer such as myself. You could send the audio files then I could record them in tracktion, and send them back... Much easier.
Last edited by Drumman74 on Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SuitcaseOfLizards SuitcaseOfLizards https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2363 - KVRAF
- 10879 posts since 3 Apr, 2002 from Austin, TX USA
I have an SR-16 sitting in the closet unused, now that I have my Fantom X6 (lol).. but it's certainly possible, although painful and tedious if I recall the interface on the SR-16 right.
Get your MIDI file and bring it into Tracktion. Make SURE your client tells you which notes he used for kick, snare, ride, etc. so you don't end up having to play "guess that drum sound" from just the raw MIDI. Get the SR-16 set up with MIDI OUT from Tracktion going to the MIDI IN on the drum machine, then take the audio outs from the drum machine and plug 'em into some stereo input that leads to your soundcard (I'm assuming you have a mixing board somewhere).
I don't have the SR-16 manual handy, but you can assign a drum sound to each MIDI note, so start your clip running (probably in loop mode), sit down in front of the SR-16 with a BIG cup of coffee and the manual, and start fiddling around with it.
Once you get what you want, just record the audio track into Tracktion and Bob's your uncle! You might want to save the settings on the SR-16, or use Trackpad to make notes of what drum sounds you finally decided on since it's real real easy to lose hardware settings if you're not careful.
I do something similar with my Fantom, but the Fantoms drum-patch interface kicks the SRs ass all over the highway (not to mention I have far more drum sounds).
Hopefully all this helps - I have a bit of a hangover so I hope I'm not too unclear. I'm doing a drum loop from T2 into my Fantom right now (seeing if it drops notes/loses timing).
Get your MIDI file and bring it into Tracktion. Make SURE your client tells you which notes he used for kick, snare, ride, etc. so you don't end up having to play "guess that drum sound" from just the raw MIDI. Get the SR-16 set up with MIDI OUT from Tracktion going to the MIDI IN on the drum machine, then take the audio outs from the drum machine and plug 'em into some stereo input that leads to your soundcard (I'm assuming you have a mixing board somewhere).
I don't have the SR-16 manual handy, but you can assign a drum sound to each MIDI note, so start your clip running (probably in loop mode), sit down in front of the SR-16 with a BIG cup of coffee and the manual, and start fiddling around with it.
Once you get what you want, just record the audio track into Tracktion and Bob's your uncle! You might want to save the settings on the SR-16, or use Trackpad to make notes of what drum sounds you finally decided on since it's real real easy to lose hardware settings if you're not careful.
I do something similar with my Fantom, but the Fantoms drum-patch interface kicks the SRs ass all over the highway (not to mention I have far more drum sounds).
Hopefully all this helps - I have a bit of a hangover so I hope I'm not too unclear. I'm doing a drum loop from T2 into my Fantom right now (seeing if it drops notes/loses timing).
Bandcamp: https://suitcaseoflizards.bandcamp.com/
Linux Mint, Waveform 13 Pro, U-He synths, Audio Damage effects,.
Linux Mint, Waveform 13 Pro, U-He synths, Audio Damage effects,.
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- KVRist
- 41 posts since 30 Jan, 2003 from Toronto
What woolyloach said.
I still use my Alesis D4 (occasionally) in Cubase (:oops:I know, I know.....but I've got some old mixes there still). I'm not sure how similar the SR-16 is to the D4 but my set-up went like this: the D4 let me set up about 22 different drumkits using the different samples on board (I don't know how easy these are to audition on the fly - I just made up a bunch of kits that I liked and saved them in the hardware). Then I would set up a midi track (I think I always used channel 16 and had the D4 set to receive on that channel). As I recall, the way I would change drumkits is by inserting a program change, try the different kits and choose one I was happy with. Often I'd leave it like this (using the outboard hardware for the sound) until late in the whole process. Then I would either: a) record it to an audio track or b) replace the outboard unit with a VST drum sampler.
It's a lot easier (like woolyloach mentioned) if you know what sounds are triggered by what notes. Standard midi drums are easiest to replace the sounds on (ie: bass drum C1; acoustic snare D1, etc).
Mike
I still use my Alesis D4 (occasionally) in Cubase (:oops:I know, I know.....but I've got some old mixes there still). I'm not sure how similar the SR-16 is to the D4 but my set-up went like this: the D4 let me set up about 22 different drumkits using the different samples on board (I don't know how easy these are to audition on the fly - I just made up a bunch of kits that I liked and saved them in the hardware). Then I would set up a midi track (I think I always used channel 16 and had the D4 set to receive on that channel). As I recall, the way I would change drumkits is by inserting a program change, try the different kits and choose one I was happy with. Often I'd leave it like this (using the outboard hardware for the sound) until late in the whole process. Then I would either: a) record it to an audio track or b) replace the outboard unit with a VST drum sampler.
It's a lot easier (like woolyloach mentioned) if you know what sounds are triggered by what notes. Standard midi drums are easiest to replace the sounds on (ie: bass drum C1; acoustic snare D1, etc).
Mike
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1820 posts since 28 Mar, 2005
i will seriously consider this. but it would have to be almost a rush job. ill consult the client and get back to you. please email me at lharless@vt.edu, and we'll talk a little more about this option.Drumman74 wrote:Or you could hire a drummer such as myself. You could send the audio files then I could record them in tracktion, and send them back... Much easier.
it's up to the client if he wants to pay somebody to do it. but ill push for it. in the mean time, i have to be serious about the midi option as he is now actively programming the midi files for the songs that he has written.
along another line: would Fruity Loops be a good option. a friend that is into midi here in the area suggested it. i don't really get the program, but i see that you can change the drum sounds after you have loaded a pattern. can you then save the files as a wav? i'd kind of be totally committed to the mix of the kit at that point i guess, but it's worth a good hard look. any wisdom on the subject would be severely appreciated.
it could be a stand alone program that saves midi files as a wav, by attaching samples to each channel or something like that. im just not sure whats out there. but the whole software idea instead of the sr-16 is a beatiful thing.
if that's the case then i could sell this thing and then buy the software. hehe. or borrow a copy from a buddy for a while until i see if i like it.
i dunno. im totally scared to death to start getting into midi. i really don't like the idea. but i think i may have to do it this time.
it wouldn't be a bad idea for me to learn it anyway. i guess i've been putting it off long enough. ...sigh... 15+ years. haha.
thanks for the suggestions fellas. ill read down through the rest of the posts to see what more wisdom you've imparted no me.
thanks
lee
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1820 posts since 28 Mar, 2005
wouldn't it be possible to just import a midi file into tracktion onto a track and then use some kind of filter that was a drum machine? is there such a thing? did one of you say that above? if so and i didn't catch it, it'sbecause i don't understand midi much less midi in tracktion... sorry fellas. i may need you to hold my hand a little on this one. ill repay the favor.
and ill post all of the songs for your enjoyment after they're done. im working on getting a website made for my demo reel this month. ill credit the forum on the liner notes of the cd too if you wish. i mean...this is only going to be a demo for the kid getting into berkely in boston. i don't know what he's using it for, but i want to do the best job i can considering he's using midi drums. i really hope this turns out ok. ill be devestated if the drums sound like crap. im already kinda messed up about not getting to mic a drumkit with this project.
i have some time to learn though. we're in the middle of another project that i was able to get a drummer to work with him long enough to get the stuff tracked.
he's a very demanding client and a very technical guitar player. he's doing some extremely experimental stuff, and he's a fast player and he likes weird time sigs. he's 15yrs old and already a master of his craft. its hard to keep drummers interested in constantly learning new material around here. we're limited to who we can use in such a small college town. soo...
you know what i mean?
but im gonna try to load a midi file onto a tracktion track and see what happens. there surely are some plugs out there that make nice drum samples or something right? or something along those lines?
and ill post all of the songs for your enjoyment after they're done. im working on getting a website made for my demo reel this month. ill credit the forum on the liner notes of the cd too if you wish. i mean...this is only going to be a demo for the kid getting into berkely in boston. i don't know what he's using it for, but i want to do the best job i can considering he's using midi drums. i really hope this turns out ok. ill be devestated if the drums sound like crap. im already kinda messed up about not getting to mic a drumkit with this project.
i have some time to learn though. we're in the middle of another project that i was able to get a drummer to work with him long enough to get the stuff tracked.
he's a very demanding client and a very technical guitar player. he's doing some extremely experimental stuff, and he's a fast player and he likes weird time sigs. he's 15yrs old and already a master of his craft. its hard to keep drummers interested in constantly learning new material around here. we're limited to who we can use in such a small college town. soo...
you know what i mean?
but im gonna try to load a midi file onto a tracktion track and see what happens. there surely are some plugs out there that make nice drum samples or something right? or something along those lines?
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- KVRAF
- 1617 posts since 2 Dec, 2003
yeah there are lots of VST drum samplers out there. what kind of drums are you looking for, and at what price range? for free you can get sfz and nskit as mentioned above. for lots of money you can get BFD or DKFH.
to use the plugs import the midi files into tracktion and then drop your drum vst as the first plug on your track. it's as easy as that.
to use the plugs import the midi files into tracktion and then drop your drum vst as the first plug on your track. it's as easy as that.
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SuitcaseOfLizards SuitcaseOfLizards https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=2363
- KVRAF
- 10879 posts since 3 Apr, 2002 from Austin, TX USA
I own DR-008, it's a pretty damn good VSTi drum machine and is about 10,000 times more flexible than my Fantom.. which also means it takes a bit to program it! However, it comes with a shiteload of kits ready to go, so I don't have to sprain my brain. And yeah, you could just load up your MIDI file, load up DR-008, assign drum sounds to pads that match your MIDI notes, and you're good to go. Switch the settings on the pads to change drum sounds, when happy, bounce the MIDI+VSTi to another track to get your stereo audio file. It's the software equivalent of programming the SR-16, only without the super-crappy keyhole hardware interface (heh heh).
The only reason drum programming on the Fantom is easy, is because of the supercool LCD screen that's actually large enough for a non-sucky UI!
sfz + nskit is a decent free option, indeed!
The only reason drum programming on the Fantom is easy, is because of the supercool LCD screen that's actually large enough for a non-sucky UI!
sfz + nskit is a decent free option, indeed!
Bandcamp: https://suitcaseoflizards.bandcamp.com/
Linux Mint, Waveform 13 Pro, U-He synths, Audio Damage effects,.
Linux Mint, Waveform 13 Pro, U-He synths, Audio Damage effects,.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1820 posts since 28 Mar, 2005
most of my clients have been rockers to date. but you never know what you're gonna get coming in the door, so i guess i should be prepared for everything from rock, funk, country(US), fusion and all that... but rock would be the best for the moment.
in my own personal music, i am a contempo-something kind of sound, more guitar oriented with a few jazz chords here and there, but mainly just mellow modern adult "chill" music. ever heard the weather channel in the US? you could put my stuff on there and it would be at home. but i also write rock songs. i experiment between the two. i guess you could call me some kind of progressive weirdo.
rock drum sounds would do me fine for right now. ill be able to get this project done if i could assign some good sounds to the midi files he sends me. just as long as they translate well. i opened a midi file in tracktion, and it sounded a little different "feel" wise than it did in cubase...i was a little concerned about this. am i missing something?
in my own personal music, i am a contempo-something kind of sound, more guitar oriented with a few jazz chords here and there, but mainly just mellow modern adult "chill" music. ever heard the weather channel in the US? you could put my stuff on there and it would be at home. but i also write rock songs. i experiment between the two. i guess you could call me some kind of progressive weirdo.
rock drum sounds would do me fine for right now. ill be able to get this project done if i could assign some good sounds to the midi files he sends me. just as long as they translate well. i opened a midi file in tracktion, and it sounded a little different "feel" wise than it did in cubase...i was a little concerned about this. am i missing something?
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1820 posts since 28 Mar, 2005
where do i find these vsti's?
on the websites of the developers? are there any other freeware things out there that would be good?
what about the fruity loops option? i could borrow a copy of that from my boss. would that be a good thing to use? i could then buy it after the project so i could have my own copy and could upgrade later.
i don't know man... im not educated very well in the art of pc midi stuff. im out of the loop!
on the websites of the developers? are there any other freeware things out there that would be good?
what about the fruity loops option? i could borrow a copy of that from my boss. would that be a good thing to use? i could then buy it after the project so i could have my own copy and could upgrade later.
i don't know man... im not educated very well in the art of pc midi stuff. im out of the loop!