Payola Shocker: J-Lo Hits, Others Were 'Bought' by Sony.

[herodotus]

It never ceases to amaze me how people pride themselves on their knowledge of what 'real' ____ (fill in the blank) is.


Having a deep, (and totally involuntary) knowledge of the SNF soundtrack (from a friend who collected every top 40 album from that era), I can't for the life of me hear how "Disco Inferno" is legit, and "Stayin alive" is not.

I mean why not have an argument over how "Yummy Yummy Yummy, I've got love in my tummy" is real early seventies bubblegum music, while "Itsy bitsy teenie weenie yellow polka dot bikini" is only pseudo-early seventies bubblegum music?

[Meffy]

herodotus: *applause*

[Failed Muso]

The Bee Gees were chosen for the SNF soundtrack not because they were disco, but because they were signed to RSO, and SNF was an RSO (Robert Stigwood Organization) production. There are a handful of legit disco tracks on the SNF soundtrack (Disco Inferno and K-Jee) but a lot of the material on it was chosen because they didn't have to license it from other labels. The fact that SNF became massively successful does not change the fact that the Bee Gees were not a disco act. It is unfortunate that most people incorrectly associate this movie with disco -- unfortunate for the Bee Gees, and unfortunate for disco.

The Bee Gees were, first and foremost, masters of the pop ballad. "How Deep Is Your Love" is still brilliant, despite how certain production elements have dated quite badly. But all of their supposed disco songs are really just pop numbers dressed up as disco, like "More Than A Woman". Think of all the handbag anthems from the 90s which had an obligatory rap bit in them -- are these considered hip-hop? No, they added it because it helped sell the records. The Bee Gees deserve to be recognized for the countless pop hits which they have written, both for themselves, and for many other artists. Their so-called disco years were a born out of a desperate move to revive their career after their initial boy-band novelty had worn off. And even then, if you take any of their proper albums from that period (like Spirits Having Flown), it's 90% pop with just one or two danceable numbers.

There are no commercial 12" mixes of the Bee Gees tunes (a promo from SNF does exist, but the songs are barely extended, hardly the kind of material that a DJ would work into a set). Their material is devoid of the soul element found in the Philly-based disco, or the imagination and over-the-top outlandishness of the European producers.

Real disco was in the clubs -- not on top 40 radio, and not on the movie screen.

However, one thing I will concede is that the Bee Gees unwittingly made a major contribution to dance music: the drum loop.

A lot more eloquently put than my argument and I had forgotten the RSO link

And yes, the drum loop was a major accomplishment. 2 bars of hi hats and snare, copied on to half inch tape. A 20ft loop of tape, running at 30ips, stretched around empty tape box hubs on mic stands and fed thru an MCI 4 track. A bit of varispeed and EQ and a legend was born

It was used on "Stayin' Alive", "More Than A Woman" & Barbara Streisand's "Woman In Love" !

Better still, it was even given it's own credit on the liner notes of SNF, credited to a Bernard Lupe (Lupe/Loop....geddit ?). allegedly, a huge amount of calls were received from people looking to book Bernard for their sessions !! LOL

[crimsontider]

Please stop the lectures and just give the definition

Most music genres can be defined in a paragraph or less by the type of beat, instruments and such, along with maybe a brief history of how it evolved.

Many people around here like to add things such as "where you were born" as an example in an attempt to exclude the ones they feel shouldn't be allowed to play a certain type of music. I am sensing this from this thread.

I usually stick to the factual, structured definition of the sounds instead of emotional ones dealing with the person performing. It's not up to me to say something that sounds like a genre is not because I believe the performers were not educated/seasoned or the correct color.

[Hink]

...however not being a fan of disco I will say that last paragraph is uncalled for, racist and absurd....should I not like Living Color, or Tony Mcalpine...or perhaps dislike Thin Lizzy? Sorry but there is no room in my world for bigots....

Woah there Hink, that was not a racist remark, nor was it absurd. Disco was a musical movement dominated in almost every way by black artists. Ask anyone around at the time. Very much like rap and hip hop, if you will. That's not racist, that's fact. And as with those genre's, Disco was taken on by a huge amount of white artists that used it to be more "hip" and "of the time". That's not racist, that's fact. The interpretation of Disco by many white artists watered down the rawness of the black variations. This was mainly done to make Disco more acceptable to the mass record buying public.

So, far from being racist, I was trying to emphasise how Disco, like so many other genre's was ripped out from the underground and made "nice" for the masses.

You can like whoever you like musically. I am white and my favourite artist is Prince. I love music, no matter who it is made by.

Do not accuse me of being racist when that is the very last thing I am.

well I dont know you and I always give someone the benefit of the doubt, however I think "white it up" was a poor choice of words...yes it's true that disco was more black then, and when I was in the service no doubt you had a good idea what "color" a barracks room was by the music...but that wasn't 100%. IMO the rooms shouldn't of been that way, but that's how it was in the 70's.

TBH I'm a big hockey fan, love the game...and again, it's sad but true...but there was a long period of time where the was not a black man on the ice...if someone said hockey was good until they blacked it up I would react exactly the same way.

Sorry for any mis-understanding, but it is a sore nerve for me...I think if we stopped calling people black and white and tried using their names instead, the world would be a more friendly place...that's one thing I like about here, with a few exceptions I'm not sure of the ethnic background of anyone here...and I dont care, everybody is the same...

[Failed Muso]

Personally, I hate genres. I just love music.

I am not saying anything about how white people can't do this or that, just that disco was a black and gay thing first and foremost. That's not my opinion, that's fact.

[Hink]

Personally, I hate genres. I just love music.

I am not saying anything about how white people can't do this or that, just that disco was a black and gay thing first and foremost. That's not my opinion, that's fact.

I suspect I might of liked disco more if I could dance

[Failed Muso]

Sorry for any mis-understanding, but it is a sore nerve for me...I think if we stopped calling people black and white and tried using their names instead, the world would be a more friendly place...that's one thing I like about here, with a few exceptions I'm not sure of the ethnic background of anyone here...and I dont care, everybody is the same...

That's cool. I see your point of view

I agree, people are people. My use of the "black/white" terms were simply to highlight the origins of the genre, nothing else. Hell, Average White Band did some great disco tunes, as did Living Color with Rock that is rightly or wrongly perceived as being a "white" form of music.

Anyway, we have strayed so far OT, it's untrue. As for payola ? Well, it's old news. Downhill Battle have been highlighting and campaigning against this very issue for some years now. It's good that it's finally getting popular exposure. Maybe more people will realise that there is more music out there that these companies don't want us to hear. The times are changing. The cartel is losing it's grip and the internet will become the global market place for musicians to ply their trade and directly benefit from their work without lining the pockets of the rich neo-con owners of companies living off their talent.

[crimsontider]

Personally, I hate genres. I just love music.

I am not saying anything about how white people can't do this or that, just that disco was a black and gay thing first and foremost. That's not my opinion, that's fact.

What does this have to do with if the Bee Gee's were disco or not? You are trying to point out that since they are not black or gay, then that is evidence that their music was not Disco, even though it was structured like disco. Exclusion for something they have no control over.

Edit:
I doubt I'll get a reponse because the accusations have now been glossed over in the above thread

[Failed Muso]

Personally, I hate genres. I just love music.

I am not saying anything about how white people can't do this or that, just that disco was a black and gay thing first and foremost. That's not my opinion, that's fact.

What does this have to do with if the Bee Gee's were disco or not? You are trying to point out that since they are not black or gay, then that is evidence that their music was not Disco, even though it was structured like disco. Exclusion for something they have no control over.

What I was really trying to get across was that the Bee Gee's were not representative of the true essence of the genre we call disco. Bruce's post puts it much better than I maybe did.

[AdInfinitum]

The easiest test to determine if a song is "disco" is if it has the word "BOOGIE" in it. For example, BOOGIE OOGIE OOGIE is disco, BOOGIE NIGHTS is disco, BOOGIE FEVER is disco. But, Stairway To Heaven is not. There, wasn't that easy.

But wait, what about BOOGIE WITH STU??? Damn, there goes my theory. It was such a good theory.

[Failed Muso]

Edit:
I doubt I'll get a reponse because the accusations have now been glossed over in the above thread

[Hink]

The easiest test to determine if a song is "disco" is if it has the word "BOOGIE" in it. For example, BOOGIE OOGIE OOGIE is disco, BOOGIE NIGHTS is disco, BOOGIE FEVER is disco. But, Stairway To Heaven is not. There, wasn't that easy.

But wait, what about BOOGIE WITH STU??? Damn, there goes my theory. It was such a good theory.

there's disco stu...

[Failed Muso]

I suspect I might of liked disco more if I could dance

[Failed Muso]

The easiest test to determine if a song is "disco" is if it has the word "BOOGIE" in it. For example, BOOGIE OOGIE OOGIE is disco, BOOGIE NIGHTS is disco, BOOGIE FEVER is disco. But, Stairway To Heaven is not. There, wasn't that easy.

But wait, what about BOOGIE WITH STU??? Damn, there goes my theory. It was such a good theory.

You almost had it there !