I don't like country all that much,* but I consider "new country," of the sort Cyrus made it big in, to be a big departure from the traditional C&W genre.
But here's the thing -- during his heyday, Cyrus was considered one of the biggest country musicians around. It doesn't matter whether he was working around the edges of the genre or at its heart, he did country music. What's most popular (or gets the most airplay thanks to PAYOLA! :-D) tends to define a genre, like it or not... and in this case I sure don't!
And that's the point I'm trying to make.
For another example, I happen to loooove Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, major proponents of "newgrass," who combine bluegrass with jazz, rock, funk, even hip hop and rap. But hardcore bluegrass nuts take one look at this band (sometimes they don't even bother to listen) and say "No way! That ain't bluegrass."
Who decides what's in a genre and what's not? The only sensible answer is that each individual has to make that decision, and that decision need be valid only for that person (though there's likely to be a lot of overlap among opinions).
Who can say definitively what represents the "true essence" of a genre? Nobody, since that implies that there's a universally agreed upon essence... and except in genres or sub-genres with very little variety, it's a near impossibility to pin that true essence down in a way all listeners (fans or not, authorities or not) can agree upon.
So I have to conclude that IMO the Bee Gees performed a lot of disco music, and most radio listeners around where I live would instantly agree. It might not have been the same as other disco, but the shoe fits so they may as well wear it.
Anyhow, it's been food for thought.
Now -- how 'bout them Mothers of Invention? Best disco band of all time, says I.
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* Usually. In a barbecue restaurant, though, or a little bar out in the middle of nowhere, country and western radio provides just the right atmosphere.
Payola Shocker: J-Lo Hits, Others Were 'Bought' by Sony.
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- KVRAF
- 6496 posts since 26 Nov, 2004 from Frederick, MD
I don't think it ever was ON Topic.pepelogu wrote:Sorry to keep this thread OT...
I hate the Lord Of The Rings movies, BTW. They don't embody the true essence of Tolkien's work.
Since we're never going to really discuss payola, I thought I'd throw that in. BTW, payola has been around since vaudeville days back in the '20s. It continued in full swing during the swing era, but the first court case in the US was in the '60s. and then there's been lawsuits for it pretty much every decade since. I just find it funny that the same industry that howls so much about lost income from illegal file sharing itself engages in illegal activities on a regular basis. Doesn't make either file sharing or payola right . . . but it is ironic.
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- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
The problem with finding the 'essence' of a 'genre' is that the relationship between a genre and the art that supposedly fits into it is actually the reverse of what is implied in that phrase.
A 'genre' is two things:
Primarily a genre is description of the work of certain artists of whatever sort.
For instance "Hardboiled Detective Fiction" is a literary genre. Arguments can be held about who was the first author to write in it, but certainly Dashiell Hammett was a 'defining' author of the genre, as was Raymond Chandler.
But it is really important to remember that these writers weren't "inventing hard boiled detective fiction" when they wrote. They were just writing. There was no 'genre' as such until critics came along after the fact and developed the concept as a convenient handle for discussing certain works by various artists that seemed to have significant similarities. And this is when the concept of a 'genre' is useful and illuminating
Afterwards this 'convenient handle' can be abused as a club to critically beat down those whose work has only superficial similarities to that of the 'genre definers'.
This is how many, many, people in the world of music use the concept of genres.
It is, to me, one of the silliest and most unfortunate aspects of popular musical culture.
A 'genre' is two things:
Primarily a genre is description of the work of certain artists of whatever sort.
For instance "Hardboiled Detective Fiction" is a literary genre. Arguments can be held about who was the first author to write in it, but certainly Dashiell Hammett was a 'defining' author of the genre, as was Raymond Chandler.
But it is really important to remember that these writers weren't "inventing hard boiled detective fiction" when they wrote. They were just writing. There was no 'genre' as such until critics came along after the fact and developed the concept as a convenient handle for discussing certain works by various artists that seemed to have significant similarities. And this is when the concept of a 'genre' is useful and illuminating
Afterwards this 'convenient handle' can be abused as a club to critically beat down those whose work has only superficial similarities to that of the 'genre definers'.
This is how many, many, people in the world of music use the concept of genres.
It is, to me, one of the silliest and most unfortunate aspects of popular musical culture.
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- KVRian
- 1469 posts since 18 Sep, 2004 from Suffolk, UK
But as a percentage of their entire output, their "disco" material is a small, if successful and popular, fraction of it.Meffy wrote:So I have to conclude that IMO the Bee Gees performed a lot of disco music
The popular perception of disco is probably that of Barry Gibb in tight white slacks, big hair, open shirt and medallion, singing flasetto. All I have left to say is that, if that is anyone's view of what disco was, you really have only scratched the surface and it's well worth a deeper exploration.
It's been a fun debate. Thanks guys
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- KVRAF
- 2830 posts since 2 Mar, 2003 from The only civilized county in Texas
I maybe totally wrong, but he was a ..... Disco Boy.....Meffy wrote:Now -- how 'bout them Mothers of Invention? Best disco band of all time, says I.
V.
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- Skunk Mod
- 21249 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture
Vic: Just so. o/~ Run into the toilet, boy, and comb your haiiiirrrrrr... o/~ :-D That song defines the disco sound to me.
Oops, wait, it's not a disco song at all, just a song about the disco scene... *blush* Well, what the hey.
Oops, wait, it's not a disco song at all, just a song about the disco scene... *blush* Well, what the hey.
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- KVRAF
- 2830 posts since 2 Mar, 2003 from The only civilized county in Texas
Actually, the first half of my line comes from "Disco Fool" (EDIT: "dancing fool", or course) which is as close to a disco song as FZ ever wrote.Meffy wrote:Vic: Just so. o/~ Run into the toilet, boy, and comb your haiiiirrrrrr... o/~That song defines the disco sound to me.
Oops, wait, it's not a disco song at all, just a song about the disco scene... *blush* Well, what the hey.
Last edited by VicDiesel on Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Skunk Mod
- 21249 posts since 10 Jun, 2004 from Pony Pasture
Ah -- "Dancing Fool" is the title, and it has a line like "I may be totally wrong but I'm a foooool... YAH!" You're right, I'd forgot that. It is indeed as disco-flavored as I've heard the Mothers get.
My quotation was from "Disco Boy." :-)
My quotation was from "Disco Boy." :-)
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- KVRian
- 680 posts since 3 Jan, 2003 from Around the Greater Tokyo area of Japan
Bastard!Meffy wrote:I faked the typo; opiadream typed it correctly -- sorry.Yagushi wrote:This is one of the most brilliant responses to a typo I've seen around here in awhile... Well done!
Deceitful bastard!Note to self: "Never trust a skunk!"