pan law question and 64bit mixing question

[JPGR11]

Just checking out the demo...

Is there a way to set the pan law, if not, what is the pan law in tracktion?

Also, are people using the 64 bit mixing setting? How is that going? Notice a significant difference? I noticed that it says to just use it on high track counts, how many is high? How much of a CPU hit happens with adding the 64bt setting to a high track count?

Thanks.

P.S. Anyone know of any tracks that show off how great Tracktion sounds, preferably not synth based music... (I wasn't too impressed with the demo songs ).

[stefancrs]

Tracktion does not sound better or worse than the other sequencers

[haydxn]

yeah, don't bother looking for tracks that show it off. it sounds as good as you can make it sound, the same goes for any good sequencer. it is an entirely pointless task

[voidar]

Pan law is unity gain when using mono or +3 (Fully left/right would mean left+right) when dealing with stereo sources, I believe. It's a really strange pan-law to have, really.

I am currently mixing a project with a high track-count (24+) and dense reverbs, and I employ the 64-bit mixing option. Sounds ok to me. I haven't bothered to compare the two yet as I know 64-bit should increase precision in a subtle way and reduce round-off errors.

[stefancrs]

Most likely, there is no audible difference

[JPGR11]

Pan law is unity gain when using mono or +3 (Fully left/right would mean left+right) when dealing with stereo sources, I believe. It's a really strange pan-law to have, really.

I am currently mixing a project with a high track-count (24+) and dense reverbs, and I employ the 64-bit mixing option. Sounds ok to me. I haven't bothered to compare the two yet as I know 64-bit should increase precision in a subtle way and reduce round-off errors.

Thanks!

So, when you say +3 fully left/right, that would be the same as -3db center, right?

I think that's the most common setting, isn't it?

Although, I was comparing Tracktion to some other DAWs, and it seemed to be a bit different, hence my question.

Would be interesting to see what you finally conclude regarding the 64bit mixer thing.

Judging from the replies, the consensus appears that Tracktion is no better but no worse sounding than any other DAW, and therefore, that 64bit thing is just Mackie hype, yes?

Or maybe the jury is still out?

[Mr. Tingle]

64bit increases sonic definition with high track counts making mixing easier (or so I've heard).

[IIRs]

6dB pan law, not 3.

..and I like the fact that panning a signal centrally at unity gain will just pass it on unnaffected. This makes multiple Vol / Pan filters per track much more feasable & useful than if each one introduced a few more dB of attenuation..

[Innominandum]

I didn't realize Tracktion had 64 bit mixing! If it's 64 bit floating point, there should be a noticeable improvement in the bass - assuming you're using 64 bit plugs.

[IIRs]

If it's 64 bit floating point, there should be a noticeable improvement in the bass

How do you work that out?

[mandolarian]

Simple Bass Player Algebra: More Bits = More Bass

You missed that book, DSP for Musicians? Ok, not really a book, more of a brochure. Well, not really a brochure, more of sticky note, but without all those difficult equations.

[stefancrs]

Ah, thanks for that first smile/chuckle of the morning. A good start

[voidar]

Pan centered means no attenuation. Panned left or right will boost. This is not normal at all. Normal would be -3db for a perceived unity gain or -6db for a calmer panorama.

You can try this by panning a 0db normalized file around. Meters will clip when panned to either side.

With floating point however this is not important before the D/A-stage. Or before processing with some finite headroom plugin (plugs that use fixed point math i.e.).

[Ixox]

I didn't realize Tracktion had 64 bit mixing! If it's 64 bit floating point, there should be a noticeable improvement in the bass

64 bits... Bass...

- assuming you're using 64 bit plugs.

The communication buffer between Tracktion and VST plugs is still 32 bits (defined by the VST API).
64 bits mixing and 64 bits plugs are totally separated.

[voidar]

Mixing doesn't happen before after plugs.

I think Innominandum is refering to a paper which states that float has an inherent round-off error that would particulary cause distortions in the lower frequencies, compared to say 24-bit integer.
We would not see an improvement before higher float bit-rates were used.