[FR] T2 File Management Most Difficult!

[jhoski]

Granted I have not been using T2 for long but I'm very dissapointed with the file management of the system. I may have missed in the manual where to solve my problems but I don't believe so. With the project manager being the first thing a new user sees it should not be the most difficult part of the system to understand and control. It detracts from an otherwise fine system.

Here are my complaints:

1. When you rename something in the project viewer there is no option to rename the underlying file. This creates a huge mess on your disk. This is true for even simple things like renaming the project or edit. Having a file name different than project name is a disaster waiting to happen. Also, it is very common to create a scratch session where you have no idea what to call the project. When it looks like it will bear fruit I go back and clean up all the names but all the files are left with their default names. There is an option in an edit to rename the source file when you rename a clip but this the only place I could find with this feature. There must be ways to rename both the object and the underlying files at the same time.
2. Since I did not completely understand the file management behavior when I first started, I ended up with files in places that I did not expect or want. I tried to use the export function to consolidate the files but ended up with broken references to the audio files when they were unpacked into a new project. This is not acceptable and hard to fix. In another example, I finished recording 10 songs in seperate projects for a friend and wanted to consolidate the final mixes and all related files into a single project for safe keeping and future reference. I thought no problem, just export them and upack into a new consolodated project. Low and behold, many audio links were broken. In hindsite this might be due to duplicate file names, however, there is no indication what is hapenning and there is no conflict resolution being performed by the unpacking program.
3. There is no way that I know of to specify the directory where you want audio placed for a project. This seems to get set by default when a project is created and is perminent. Also if you try to reuse an edit and put it in a different project it remembers the old directory and insists on puttin new audio there. This definitely needs fixing. If I might suggest project level default directory parameters for audio, exports, edits, etc. you could easily change the directory on the fly. These would ideally be lists so you could have audio in more than one directory.
4. Renaming tracks should have an option to rename the underlying clips and audio automatically.

I know there have seen other posts that have similar comments. File management in music production is very important and mistakes are made if it is not simple, controllable, and easily understood.

I would make this a very high priority for future updates.

If I made any mistatements feel free to correct them as I am most interested in working around these issues.

[djsubject]

the way i work is to make a new folder for each project (all audio files go to that folder)

before Tracktion i did not work this way (but now i probley allways will, no matter what software i end up using)


hope this helps

Subz

[IIRs]

3. There is no way that I know of to specify the directory where you want audio placed for a project.

Edit the "filename" field for the input.. I fiddled around with that at first, but ended up sticking with the default, using the same system as Subs (which is basically how I worked in Cubase anyway).

[ModuLR]

ditto here... new project = new folder ... all audio goes in that folder (at which point I don't really pay attention to the actual filenames).

[thoshu]

Having a file name different than project name is a disaster waiting to happen.

that's what happened to me - and 100 % ack with all you said.

Meanwhile I do it like djsubject, but would nevertheless appreciate all these matters to be fixed or improved.

[haydxn]

new project new folder. i'd say it should be a mantra but to be perfectly honest, i can't think of a single reason why someone would not be inclined to do this in the first place.

[jens]

new project new folder. i'd say it should be a mantra but to be perfectly honest, I can't think of a single reason why someone would not be inclined to do this in the first place.

I could explain you a reason but I'm not sure you really want to know...

[jhoski]

I am in the habit of using a new directory for each project and have worked this way for many years. Setting up a new project in a fresh directory is not one of the problems that I am refering to above. All the issues above start to happen after you have created the project worked for awhile and want to manupulate the names of the T2 objects or share stuff. As long as the project never has to leave its own little world everything is fine, but if you use other programs besides T2, wish to colloborate with other projects, need reorganize your hard drive, get a new external hard drive, or archive stuff for later use you immediately have a hard time keeping the project in sync with its files. To be fair, most audio programs like T2 have a similar mode of operation, however, all the ones I have used allow you to rename the underlying files or they simply use the file names in their project managers and don't have seperate references. Like I said, if you never leave T2's concept of a project you probably never see any of these issues. Most users will eventually have to venture outside the project manager and make some sense of the files created.

[haydxn]

to be perfectly honest, Tracktion's way of doing things is the first i've encountered that actually WORKED for me. i've got countless projects from my logic days that are split up all over the place. when i've got an edit to the stage where i'm happy and want to back it up, i simply archive that edit and it's done. all the files it needs are stored in a single file or location and it can be burned/transfered/moved/etc safely.

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[Barbarossa]

jhoski,
although i wish T had a more flexible (=less automated) file management and an audio-pool, T's file managment is the most user-friendly and it's only backdraw is, that you have to trust into it's automatic functions.

For me it works best, to think in a subtractive way about file managment: i don't care at all about the files used in a project or edit. If i finish a project i simply export it - and throw all the residing files in the old project's folder away.
If i want to clean up things, while working on an edit, i just export the edit as a lossless archive. The rest of the files - thrown away.
When i unpack the edit, l have only the parts of files used in the edit and nothing more.
That is ways ahead of any other sequencer's possibilities i know. But you have to trust T's file-managment. But so far it always worked.

[ModuLR]

1. When you rename something in the project viewer there is no option to rename the underlying file. This creates a huge mess on your disk. This is true for even simple things like renaming the project or edit. Having a file name different than project name is a disaster waiting to happen. Also, it is very common to create a scratch session where you have no idea what to call the project. When it looks like it will bear fruit I go back and clean up all the names but all the files are left with their default names. There is an option in an edit to rename the source file when you rename a clip but this the only place I could find with this feature. There must be ways to rename both the object and the underlying files at the same time.

If you are on the project page and wish to rename a clip and it's underlying file... select the clip first, then press the [...] button next to "file". A menu will popup... then select "rename this file". Type in the new filename, and hit ok... then it will ask if you wish to autmatically rename the clip as well. Hope that helps ya out a bit...

just know that if you have any other edits that are referencing that particular clip in which you just renamed it's underlying file.. you are going to break that reference in any other edits.

[Lunch Money]

There's also an option I believe in the settings TAB (I'm not at my T machine right now) so that this behaviour is always exhibited. (ie. each time you rename a clip, the underlying file is renamed)

Greg

[jhoski]

Thanks ModuLR, that is helpful, although in my mind the reverse of how I use the program and not intuitive. I can be trained, however. It looks like this method works in the edit screen as well by selecting the clip and the "View Source Info" button which pulls up the same dialog as the project browser. With this I can work around some the cleanup issues I'm having.

Barborossa comments are also valid and is originally the process I intended to follow to clean up a couple of projects. Only problem is I did not have excellent results. The first cleanup involved a very large 16 track live recording which would archive (according to T2) but not unpack into the destination project. Unfortunaltely this was one of my first projects and in the most disarray. We were in a hurry, newbies having just bought the system, and flinging edits everywhere so we could record the show. This is what originally caused me to pull back the covers to try and clean up the mess(yea, this one was probably self inflicted).

The other issue is more common trying to unpack mutliple songs for a client into a single project to better organize and archive them as finished set. This is where the lost links started showing up. For now it looks like I cannot merge songs into a single project because of this. Again I can probably work around that although I think the archiver needs some work resolving confilcts and making sure the archive is usable.

I agree that when all goes well you can sit back and let T2 do its thing and of course all my sessions are perfect . I'm still for some improvements in this area, but for now will be able to get by. Thanks all.

[ModuLR]

The other issue is more common trying to unpack mutliple songs for a client into a single project to better organize and archive them as finished set. This is where the lost links started showing up. For now it looks like I cannot merge songs into a single project because of this. Again I can probably work around that although I think the archiver needs some work resolving confilcts and making sure the archive is usable.

I agree that when all goes well you can sit back and let T2 do its thing and of course all my sessions are perfect . I'm still for some improvements in this area, but for now will be able to get by. Thanks all.

I could see how that would be confusing... more suggestions coming If I wanted to have and artist with multiple projects contained, I'd probably export the projects independently. Then place them in a single fodler named after the artist. Then instead of using a tracktion archive, I'd zip it all instead (I actually zip my exported projects anyway, cos I have a weird fear of proprietary archival systems... I know zip will be here for a long time to come).

Anyway, I think T2 could improve this by allowing users to create their own folders as opposed to stirctly having an "active projects" folder and a "library projects" folder. That way you could create you own "<artist> projects" fodlers which could contain each <song> project... with the bonus being able to archive entire folders as opposed to projects by themselves. That would rock.