KVR Audio

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:13 pm

Galleoneer wrote:Umm, with these ones you can make extra strong coffee!

To be honest they rock

Are they really modified Antti ones?

Hehe, thanks.

Yeah, they are basically Antti ones, but not much like the source code examples that float around. I.e. all examples use 2 tanh()s per stage while only 1 is needed (nobody seems to notice this). What I did was, I simply removed a lot of stuff, kinda like nomalizing the whole equation. The basic problem is the oversampling. Normal double sampling does not work properly, because tanh() on the input sample *does* introduce aliasing, no matter what. So I came up with some kind of "drive progression" over the stages which reduced it a bit. Hope you can follow. I can't. I don't even understand the resulting code anymore.

Cheers,

Urs

Galleoneer · Post by **Galleoneer** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:46 pm

Urs wrote:Hope you can follow.

I hope, too

I just google for the sources then

antti · Post by **antti** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:08 pm

Urs wrote:Yeah, they are basically Antti ones, but not much like the source code examples that float around. I.e. all examples use 2 tanh()s per stage while only 1 is needed (nobody seems to notice this).

People are blind. I even point it out in the original paper.

Normal double sampling does not work properly, because tanh() on the input sample *does* introduce aliasing

Double sampling never works properly, even with linear filters.

jmh · Post by **jmh** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:42 pm

kritikon wrote: Orgon Energiser filters were very powerful.

! Hell yeah. I've gotten over most of my hardware fetishes but this thing... one day...

I just recovered the FM cover disc with the example, I'll put it online and then start harassing developers about getting something similar

Regards,

JMH

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:49 am

antti wrote:People are blind. I even point it out in the original paper.

Hehe, yeah

antti wrote:Double sampling never works properly, even with linear filters.

Yeah... I was wondering... have you tried using first order allpass interpolation for upsampling? - It works so great for delays, but I'm not sure if it affects the phase too much when using 1 interpolated, one straight and so on. Havn't had the time, but it might be a cheap compromise...?

Cheers,

Urs

_starcraft_ · Post by **_starcraft_** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:31 am

after all the paraises for fabfilter volcano i tried the demo...
the dynamics , volume and presence get killed in that plugin.
just open the "clean" preset and hear how its not clean at all. compare by bypassing the plugin.
the sound of the filters is actually good....but the plugin somewhere in the audio chain does something starnge to the incoming audio....
u cant get the same sound comin in and out ofthe plugin....it just lowers the quality of the audio coming in. it's so evident.
ppl that said this is a good filter plugin need their ears checked.no offence....but its so obvious.
what i really liked though was the MIDI tiggering (for lfos and enevlope)on keypress. which make its seemlessly integrate with any softwsynth for example.

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:17 pm

I've noticed the same odd clean sound in Volcano, it makes the sound a bit muddy when nothing is on. But, you said yourself, the filters themselves are good.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:31 pm

_starcraft_ wrote:after all the paraises for fabfilter volcano i tried the demo...
the dynamics , volume and presence get killed in that plugin.
just open the "clean" preset and hear how its not clean at all. compare by bypassing the plugin.
the sound of the filters is actually good....but the plugin somewhere in the audio chain does something starnge to the incoming audio....
u cant get the same sound comin in and out ofthe plugin....it just lowers the quality of the audio coming in. it's so evident.
ppl that said this is a good filter plugin need their ears checked.no offence....but its so obvious.
what i really liked though was the MIDI tiggering (for lfos and enevlope)on keypress. which make its seemlessly integrate with any softwsynth for example.

Yes, it does modify the incoming audio and kind of makes it a bit 'lo-fi' but have you ever considered that some might think this sounds awesome?? I for instance like it very much. I use Volcano as a transistor overdrive emulator all the time (try crankin' the input to max! It's fun

). If you don't like what the filter is doind simply reduce the input gain. make it -20 and then make the output +20dB. That usually takes care of most material (unless it's very hot full mix material in which case you need to insert a gain plugin before volcano).

One more thing, the filters 'clean' preset still removes some high frequencies even when cutoff knob is set to max. This is why you hear a slight 'muddying' of the sound. The filters are always switched on and do not seem to go all the way up (maybe to reduce aliasing? I don't know..)

Cheers!
- bManic

_starcraft_ · Post by **_starcraft_** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:31 am

bmanic wrote: One more thing, the filters 'clean' preset still removes some high frequencies even when cutoff knob is set to max. This is why you hear a slight 'muddying' of the sound. The filters are always switched on and do not seem to go all the way up (maybe to reduce aliasing? I don't know..)

Cheers!
- bManic

that's why it's not a good filter plugin.
u r losing quality . u don't want that.
at least i would never want that.
muddy sound is no thx

Galleoneer · Post by **Galleoneer** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:31 pm

here check this out:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=100321

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:17 pm

_starcraft_ wrote:
bmanic wrote: One more thing, the filters 'clean' preset still removes some high frequencies even when cutoff knob is set to max. This is why you hear a slight 'muddying' of the sound. The filters are always switched on and do not seem to go all the way up (maybe to reduce aliasing? I don't know..)

Cheers!
- bManic
that's why it's not a good filter plugin.
u r losing quality . u don't want that.
at least i would never want that.
muddy sound is no thx

Your reasoning makes no sense. It's not supposed to be a 'transparent' plugin. It's a filter!! Heck, there are compressors and other processors that loose more fidelity than fabfilter does and these are used in mastering! Ever tried a LA-2A on the masterbus? Howbout a 2" tape deck running at 30ips? I've even heard they put the Tubetech multiband compressor on whole mixes and it sure colours the sound much more than this mere plugin.. does this make all these units bad??

EDIT: one more thing, put both filters in HP mode, put cutoff frequency as low as possible and switch to parallel mode. Make sure the input gain is at -20dB and the output gain at +20dB. If you still hear any loss of fidelity you better go see a shrink (and trust me, I hear quite subtle differences).

- bManic

kritikon · Post by **kritikon** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:22 pm

Is that what the b in bmanic stands for...batears?

jmh · Post by **jmh** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:31 pm

Yep!

JMH

mystahr · Post by **mystahr** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:25 pm

Well my Roland Juno60 has an incredibly tasty filter

software wise it would be Filterscape (although the new Zebra2 filters will even surpass this)

Notron User · Post by **Notron User** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:07 pm

mystahr wrote:Well my Roland Juno60 has an incredibly tasty filter

Ah, but I have zee Roland SH2 and zat allows you to inputs zee external zignals most easily. Which reminds me... I must modify zee MG-1 for filtration externale.

(Faux French accent courtesy of too many Abenobashi Magical Shopping Arcade Episodes this weekend).

What are the best filters you have heard??