T2 Stereo 24bit Rendered wav->Import HDR Problems

[Mr Coffeehouse]

Hi All -

I hope you can help me here. Maybe I'm doing something wrong...

I am attempting (for the first time) to transfer a 24bit/48k wav stereo file that was a render of several files inside of T2 to a 48k/24bit project on an external drive containing an HDR project and then import it into a project on the HDR.

Basically it is a submix of several instruments within T2 that I want to land on 2 free tracks inside my HDR project.

I am able to play the rendered stereo file inside of T2 so I know it is there.

I am able to transfer it to a folder within the HDR project folder, so I know it transfers. So far so good.

Now here's where it goes wrong.

When I put the drive into the HDR, on the HDR, with the project open, I need to 'import file' to have the HDR place the file in the file bin for me to drag it onto the timeline.

When I find and then attempt to 'Import File', I keep getting a block window saying "During File Import. Error #50 - Data Error"

So, I tried a number of ways to re-render, re-name, and re-transfer the file, always with the same end result of that error window in the final stage.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks, Mike from the Coffeehouse

Dell Inspiron PC Laptop.
3.2gig Intel 4 Chip.
2gig Ram.
Echo Indigo 24bit pcmcia card.
Firedock w/ USB 2 for transfer to external drive.
Stereo 24bit/48k file created by by highliting several stereo tracks and choosing 'Render into the project directory' and 'Add rendered tracks'.
HDR project is also 48k/24bit.

[Beno]

Mike, can you verify that the file plays with another app on your PC? Like windows media player for example? How large is the file? Does 16 bit work as a test? Just trying to figure it out.
Ben

[Mr Coffeehouse]

Mike, can you verify that the file plays with another app on your PC? Like windows media player for example? How large is the file? Does 16 bit work as a test? Just trying to figure it out.
Ben

Hi Ben, Thanks for the reply to this -

Ok, well this is interesting…

First, these are the audio players I have on my laptop (Other than T2):

Windows Media Player v9
Real Audio Player v10.5
Quicktime Pro Player 6.5.2
I-Tunes 4.9.0.17

My OS is Windows XP Pro

I was not able to play the 24bit/48k wav file in question on WMP, RAP, or I-Tunes, but it played lovely in the Quicktime Player.

The file is 53.5mb in size.

Ok…

As another test, I created a 24bit/48k .aiff file of a mixdown I had on my Alesis Masterlink in my control room. When I imported it to my laptop, that file played fine in I-Tunes and Quicktime. WMA didn’t play it, and RAP went through the motions of playing it but didn’t output any sound out of either the Echo card or the internal audio outs~!

Hm…

So, I transferred that 24/48 stereo aiff file to the HDR drive in the same folder as the wav that gets the error, and was successfully able to ‘import’ it and drag it onto the HDR timeline.

Hmmm…

So, I tried downsampling the original wav file in question from 24 bit to 16 bit, using QT Pro, and then successfully transferred it and imported it into my HDR timeline. That worked fine. Also – I was relieved to find the file was sample-accurate in its time relation to the other original tracks. Cool.

Well…

I tried importing another HDR project’s 24/48 mono file into the project I am working with (both on the same drive) and it imported it no problem.

Ok…

So, does this mean T2 creates stereo 24/48 files that don’t transfer to HDRs? Does this mean the HDR OS can’t import STEREO 24/48 WAV files, only mono ones?

Whew, ok, two last tests…
‘cause this thing is buggin me....

I created a new 24/48 wav of the original rendered one by muting all tracks except the rendered on within T2 and ‘exporting’ at 24/48 (without dithering, or normalizing, etc…). I got it over to the HDR drive and attempted to import and I still get the error box.

I did the exact same thing and exported as a stereo 24/48 aiff and imported and it ok, but the gain structure was all wrong (due to changes made at the master bus level I imagine).

I’ll use the 16-bit aiff converted one for now

I hope these tests were helpful.

Ben, what do you think is going on?

Best, Mike

[Beno]

Hmm strange. I forget how well HDR deals with stereo files. Maybe try making a mono file for hard left and hard right and see how that works.
Ben

[Mr Coffeehouse]

Hmm strange. I forget how well HDR deals with stereo files. Maybe try making a mono file for hard left and hard right and see how that works.
Ben

Ben -

I'll try it out for sure..
What's the best way to do that in T2 while maintaining the exact levels of the stereo file? (In consideration of the pan algorithm volume thing).

Good looking out (especially on a weekend-!),
Best, Mike

[Beno]

You know, I just realized this isn't as easy as it should be. Hmm. Way to uncover a feature request for T3.

OK, you could throw a patch bay filter as the last item on the master fader. For the left render, rout the left input to the patch bay filter to both outputs and deselect the stereo button on the export dialog. Then change the patch bay to have the right input feed both outputs.

Anyone else have any good ideas on how to do this?
Ben

[Mr Coffeehouse]

OK Ben -

I think I found (at least) a way to split up the files lovely. I'll be going down to the studio later today so I'll check then if the mono tracks transfer ok to the HDR.

Here it goes...

Take a stereo track in T2 and make 2 copies by clicking on the audio clip, going to 'view source info', click on 'edit audio file' and choose 'create a copy of this wave file'.

Do this twice and call one copy left and one copy right. These new copies will show up in the projects bin.

While at the projects bin view, click on the left copy audio clip.

This time, from the 'edit audio file' tab, choose 'basic editing operations'.

This pops up the 'basic audio file operations' window. In 'operation type', choose 'make mono', and for the 'method', choose 'use left channel only'. then click 'do it!'.

Repeat this for the right file but choose 'use right channel only'.

An thats it.

I'll post my findings with trying to import these mono 24/48 wavs into me' HDR.

Maybe the feature request is just to have one more qualifier in the 'method' list that is 'split stereo file into two mono files L/R'.

That is, until you come out with your wicked cool T3->HDR/MDR/SDR integration

Best, Mike

[Beno]

YUp that is much better. So do the mono files import?
Ben

[Mr Coffeehouse]

Well, I just gave it a go...
Unfortunately, they don't.
Same error message problem.

Is it just my machines?

Best, Mike

[Mr Coffeehouse]

..ok, I need to compose myself here

What i meant to ask was -

Can anyone with T2 and a Mackie HDR please try to replicate this problem I'm experiencing and post your findings here?

When I have time later tonight at the studio I'm gonna see if this also happens with 24/44.1 files.
I'm also gonna see if this happens when I convert the wavs to 24bit aiff within T2 and then send them over to the HDR.

Much Appreciated,
Mike at The Coffeehouse

[Mr Coffeehouse]

...ok it's a week or so later and I finally had a chance to do the following:

Within T2, I isolated the stereo rendered 24bit/48k track that I wanted to send to me Mackie HDR hardware recorder (removed all other tracks).

Mixed down four versions from that stereo track with final output unprocessed and at unity gain, no normalization, no x1, no dithering. The four versions were 16/44.1 Wav, 24/44.1 Wav, 16/48 AIFF, 24/48 AIFF

Sent these files over to a folder within the project folder on the HDR via USB 2 and a Firedock.

So Far So Good

Went to import them into the HDR Project and this is what happened -

Neither wavs imported. I get the Error 50 window.

Both AIFFs imported. the 16 bit was fine, the 24 bit was a much much larger waveform - saturated, maxxed out!?!!

Ben / Anybody - what do you think is going on?

Thanks, Mike at The Coffeehouse

[Beno]

Yeah, that is a known issue with 24 bit aif. They don't work anywhere but Tracktion. I have no idea why the wav. We'll have to do some looking into this.
Ben

[Mr Coffeehouse]

Thanks Ben - Keep me 'n us posted on this.

The HDR audio transfers no problem up into T2.
It's just the other way around~

Best, Mike