Guitar players, The soundclick MP3 demo page got updated !

[Wormhelmet]

I would have to agree on response from micing a 4-12 cab. I have owned laney, Dean Markley, Carvin, Peavey triumph series (all tube, and the best distorted I have tried out of any amps I've owned), Marshall, and fender tube amps. A tube amp is what it is and no emulation has come to replicate it precisely, but i do find some compromising on the sound/price/space is completely reasonable for my purposes. I could afford my POD, i also enjoy the free GSuite. There are no placements to be made and extra equipment. There is no incredible cost to one on a budget. There is an almost there, but not quite feel to it, but given the resources and time spent on setup, they are useable. I look forward to better products in the future and think modeling will come a long ways from where it is. I would like to know one thing though. All these companies putting out modeling of this amp or that amp, are they really spending the time and taking the measurements to closely model the actual amp, or are they getting a few measurements and getting a close proximity and calling it good to put out a product faster? Do they even have the actual amps to measure the responses? I think GSuite did this, which is why it is limited to two amp models. They came close. That is all they could do. They could not nail it perfectly. They state that too. That is fine with me.

[Midiworks]

The page before gave me a few ideas !
Tightness: Yes can get it way better now,
but this comes at a cpu price of at least 5%, when in use...

Air: Well, I also have an idea for that.
But I must try...
no idea if the result would be what you want but I know what you are missing now.

I have an mp3 here from a test session a few weeks ago,
where that "air" is actually happening,
I only realized that a few days later while
comparing some recordings I did back then.

[Midiworks]

I'll try to record some tracks!

Midiworks, does the offer still stand, for mp3 providers?

Regards,

Heeb.

(Off to record some tracks now...)

Sorry Heep, not at the moment...
There are no specfic things I need at this point.
Maybe something will come up in the next weeks,
so keep your eys open !

[Sascha Franck]

I totally agree with you, Wormhelmet. At that convenience and price tag simulations are unbeatable. And that's the very reason why I'm using them on numerous occasions.

[fritzman]

The page before gave me a few ideas !
Tightness: Yes can get it way better now,
but this comes at a cpu price of at least 5%, when in use...

Hi Rene,

this whole CPU consumption thingy is not acceptable for me. I want BIG sound and not a plugin that HAS to perform with 30 instances on a baby laptop.

And yes, what actual amps do you have there as a reference? I mean physically at your place. You were talking about a Rectifier stack as if you've got one!?


Best wishes, FRitz

[fritzman]

I totally agree with you, Wormhelmet. At that convenience and price tag simulations are unbeatable. And that's the very reason why I'm using them on numerous occasions.

Exactly!

Additionally to that the next amp sim I'll buy has to be the reason for some serious dust on my POD. when I've got it here in my computer it won't make it if it's only a little better.
This thing here sounds promising and christmas isn't THAT far away, so ...


Best wishes, FRitz

[Midiworks]

The page before gave me a few ideas !
Tightness: Yes can get it way better now,
but this comes at a cpu price of at least 5%, when in use...

Hi Rene,

this whole CPU consumption thingy is not acceptable for me. I want BIG sound and not a plugin that HAS to perform with 30 instances on a baby laptop.




Best wishes, FRitz

this whole CPU consumption thingy is not acceptable for me. I want BIG sound and not a plugin that HAS to perform with 30 instances on a baby laptop.

Hm Fritz, I dont understand what you want to say here... sorry.
Too much cpu ? If thats what you mean, you can turn that off.

And yes, what actual amps do you have there as a reference? I mean physically at your place. You were talking about a Rectifier stack as if you've got one!?

I did'nt, Sascha did.
It actually does not matter what I have or not.
Does it sound right to your ears, what our amp does or not,
does it act/react better than other amp sims or not ?

This is a project of passion,
and the goal is, to make the best, most real amp sim that will be available.

[heeb]

I'll try to record some tracks!

Midiworks, does the offer still stand, for mp3 providers?

Regards,

Heeb.

(Off to record some tracks now...)

Sorry Heep, not at the moment...
There are no specfic things I need at this point.
Maybe something will come up in the next weeks,
so keep your eys open !

Shit. I recorded some tracks anyway! Here they are.

For the record: recorded through a MindPrint DI-port A/D converter, which has a way-too-low input impedance for electric guitar!

First, 4 tracks recorded on a Gibson Special Ivory I (a collectors item: an SG model with just one(!) pickup. I replaced the original pickup with a Bill Lawrence, which can be switched from humbucker to single coil):

Humbucker:

1. http://www.angelfire.com/ms/heeb/images ... Chords.mp3
2. http://www.angelfire.com/ms/heeb/images ... r_Solo.mp3

Single Coil:

3. http://www.angelfire.com/ms/heeb/images ... Rhythm.mp3
4. http://www.angelfire.com/ms/heeb/images ... l_Solo.mp3

Then, 2 tracks recorded on an Ibanez Talman Inter City (steel string, piezo):



5. http://www.angelfire.com/ms/heeb/images ... Chords.mp3
6. http://www.angelfire.com/ms/heeb/images ... eolets.mp3

OK, Midiworks, hope the tracks are of any use to you!

Just for fun, I also recorded one of these tracks through my own amp sim, the CrunchDude (see: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=97723):

http://www.angelfire.com/ms/heeb/images ... chDude.mp3

Heeb.

[Lunch Money]

Sascha,

I know exactly what you're talking about with that 'air' or that "chuk" and "tak"... but actually I think that this amp DOES have that missing quality. I believe it was on page 47, but on other pages too, I've tried to identify that certain sound that a real amp would have, and I believe that this amp is doing a very good job of it compared to other sims.

Ironic that the quality in this sim that's getting me the most excited is the one that you claim is missing.

Greg

[fritzman]

Hi Rene,

this whole CPU consumption thingy is not acceptable for me. I want BIG sound and not a plugin that HAS to perform with 30 instances on a baby laptop.

Hm Fritz, I dont understand what you want to say here... sorry.
Too much cpu ? If thats what you mean, you can turn that off.

Hi Rene,

hehe, no. I meant that I don't care if this thing has a high CPU consumption or not. If it takes 50% of my CPU and sounds GREAT, so what? If it eats less and still sounds great that's alright with me.

And yes, what actual amps do you have there as a reference? I mean physically at your place. You were talking about a Rectifier stack as if you've got one!?

I did'nt, Sascha did.
It actually does not matter what I have or not.
Does it sound right to your ears, what our amp does or not,
does it act/react better than other amp sims or not ?

Dont you maybe confuse the sound of a real rectifire,
comming out of the real mesa speaker, with the sound of your monitors ?

This is what you wrote and to what I was referring to. This sounded like you know "your" Rectifier really good. Saying something like this to Sascha (a professional guitarist!) sounds a little full-mouthed to me so I came up with the thought of what your actual reference(s) are.
You know, with all the good will that I have for you and your passionate project there's a threshold where anybody starts to feel the time that is not playing FOR you when you e.g. ask me:

Does it sound right to your ears, what our amp does or not,
does it act/react better than other amp sims or not ?

You know that I don't know if it does act/react better than other amp sims because I don't have your plugin here to be able to answer these questions and stop guessing if it might have enough air, oomph, boing, pling or shrang.
It's not cool to try to talk someone as Sascha down with a statement as the one quoted above. These are the reasons why I got a little upset.

This is a project of passion,
and the goal is, to make the best, most real amp sim that will be available.

Lengthy time to wait for something while You try to keep everybody mega excited doesn't work so good THAT way. Man, if Sascha says it's not good enough without even having tried it then make it better. And quite frankly I'm with Sascha. It should be better than what we heard yet.


Best wishes, FRitz

[Wormhelmet]

I think the midiworks plug sounds fantastic and is getting some beefy sounds that compare very well to other amp sims. It's the price tag that might scare me. I have a cheap guitar, cheap PC, etc. I know GTR and Guitar Rig have hardware devices as well that come with. I hope this stays a reasonable price. I bought my POD for $250.00. If it can beat out the POD, then maybe $250.00 is OK, but I would be hesitant about it. I think the number of people that would buy it at $180 would be a lot more than $250.00 anfd the number of people at $99 would be 5 times that. There is something to say about the Waves group, NI, IK Multimedia, etc. They have been in the game for a few yaers and I firmly believe they are not going away anytime soon. You have to get your name out there for awesome product+great pricing+great service to be a contender in this world of free/cracked/pro/longstanding/great customer service competition. I feel for developers ebntering the arena. It's tough, but those things like pricing/service/great product can shoot you to a top notch spot if done correctly. At version 3 of Ableton, I hadn't really heard much about them. At version 5, they seriously kick ass and can charge the higher price now. They have a worthy product+great service+time invested and reputation built. I trust their product after using it and seeing how they respond to customers needs and problems. Just an example. Tracktion guys too. Started with $80.00 and moved up. A reasonable increase in price after all the improvements. they listen too. The money will come, believe me, if done correctly. Just some friendly advice. It looks very promising, but maybe a lower price and version 1.0 release soon would be a great start. Save the perfection for Version two when everyone says "I am waiting for Midiworks amp at Version two. Yeah the price will be $250.00, but after playing with version one, it will knock the sox off anything out there"

[Wormhelmet]

Image line is another great example for a product with FL Studio. Unlimited upgrades for free? Now that's a hook. They seem to be doing well also.

[_patch]

@patch
a project that involves by now 6 people,
can not be called a "private ampsim-project" anymore.

this thread startet on July 2004...
and it's still a private project for me (sponsored by KVR).

[Midiworks]

Dont you maybe confuse the sound of a real rectifire,
comming out of the real mesa speaker, with the sound of your monitors ?

This is what you wrote and to what I was referring to. This sounded like you know "your" Rectifier really good. Saying something like this to Sascha (a professional guitarist!) sounds a little full-mouthed to me so I came up with the thought of what your actual reference(s) are.
You know, with all the good will that I have for you and your passionate project there's a threshold where anybody starts to feel the time that is not playing FOR you when you e.g. ask me:

Fritz, I think we have a BIG missundrestanding here !!!

Sascha has a Mesa and I imagine he plays it on stage and knows its sound, feel and power very well.
Thats why I ask HIM this question, and his answer was, as many times before usefull to me.

Does it sound right to your ears, what our amp does or not,
does it act/react better than other amp sims or not ?

You know that I don't know if it does act/react better than other amp sims because I don't have your plugin here to be able to answer these questions and stop guessing if it might have enough air, oomph, boing, pling or shrang.
It's not cool to try to talk someone as Sascha down with a statement as the one quoted above. These are the reasons why I got a little upset.

As said, before BIG missunderstanding or better missinterpretation of my words.

Trough a Rockman topic here at KVR,
Sascha started (without knowing) the amp projct.
Sascha provided many usefull guitar takes to me.
Sascha's words made me invent the Guitar Response Simulator.

Thanks again Sascha !

This is a project of passion,
and the goal is, to make the best, most real amp sim that will be available.

Lengthy time to wait for something while You try to keep everybody mega excited doesn't work so good THAT way. Man, if Sascha says it's not good enough without even having tried it then make it better. And quite frankly I'm with Sascha. It should be better than what we heard yet.

Fritz, I invite you to take the dry tracks of the Amp Response demo,
to use it with ANY amp sim you like and post it here !
I agree tho, that it always can get better.

Cheers

Rene


Edit:
Sorry forgot, Crunch and cleaner Bues demo is now on,
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus ... dID=201397

[Sascha Franck]

Sascha has a Mesa and I imagine he plays it on stage and knows its sound, feel and power very well.

Btw, I *only* have a Mark IV, which is quite different from a Rectifier. It's defenitely not a hard rock amp - yet, the sounds are quite punchy.

Btw, on a sidenote: For smaller commercial jobs I still use my Boss GT-5 running into a Twin (some of the "The Twin" models, with the read ugly knobs that break all so easily, *ugh*). So, basically, the Twin is doing nothing but making things loud. Still, even if the GT-5 is a mediocre sounding unit at best (pretty much brilliant concept though, as it's got the best utility mode of all amp sims ever), the sound can be really kicking. I'd never ever use it for recording anymore, but used through the Twin it's quite something else.
What I want to say is: Even rather lousy sounding units can live up a LOT if fed into a real amp. And well, the Twin isn't even sounding all that great by itself (ok clean sound, but that's about it), and I can't crank it up much either (just imagine, I've never used anything above 2-3 in "low power" mode, and it's getting louder pretty straight until 7 or so).

This is what makes me wonder. All the amp simulations (on their own, without any further routing) are usually sounding nice, impressive, flexible and all. Plus, they are affordable, super-convenient, won't make your neighbours feel like reaching for a chainsaw, all that...
But, regardless what you're using, whenever you feed the results (even the recorded ones, with some speaker simulation allready applied!) through some real amp/mic setup, the sound will become *quite* something else. All of a sudden you can just turn down your guitar tracks by several dB, because they simply got that punch required to cut through a mix.

I have allways been a friend of digital technology. In fact, when the first programmable full tube amp head came out (some Dynacord model, for those who remember), I bought it. When the first multi-fx rack unit suited for guitars came out (Roland GP-8), I bought it. I also bought one of the first H&K "Cream Machines", and I also had several of their Red Boxes (speaker simulators).
I allways *wanted* things to work. But, regardless of how convenient things were, regardless of how flexible they were - I haven't seen anything doing the job any better than a real amp without all the digital gizmos.
When my rig got stolen around 20 years back (don't even remind me, there's been the Dynacord, a Mesa Quad preamp, a GP-8, an SPX 1000 and a Rane splitter/mixer, modified to work as a looper- all the expensive shit you could have back then, I've never seen a single penny because I've been clever enough not having the insurance contract sent back in time...), I had to replace it with some borrowed Plexi Marshall (50 Watt, no master volume), using a single Tube Screamer, a Boss Delay and a CS-1 in front of it, all my band mates were like "wow, what a great guitar sound". So was I. Mind you, those folks had no clue about guitar sounds, yet even they recognized the punchyness and all.

However, all that got me thinking. And while I'm still going the digital route whenever I need a lot of sounds in a convenient way, I still wouldn't use them if I had to actually record or play any serious (guitar-oriented) gigs.
And seriously, I'd be more than happy if things were any different!

Sorry for the lenghthy excourse.