Volume Control over MIDI - NOT track?

[JayVee]

Say it ain't so!
Somebody tell me I can control the Volume of 2 or more (layered for example) plug-ins, with a pedal transmitting on the same MIDI channel.

I've spent weeks setting up my Receptor for live performances; only today did I plug in my pedals (2 controlling keyboards) to discover that CC7 messages are not received over a common MIDI channel, instead, it appears that only the default track receives the message:
Track 1 = MIDI 1
Track 2 = MIDI 2
Track 3 = MIDI 3
Etcetera.

With my XV-5080, for example, I could put instruments on channels 1, 4, and 5 set to MIDI 1. If my keyboard is current playing on MIDI 1, my Volume Pedal will effect ALL of those 'Tracks'.
My other keyboard (Triton) will transmit on whatever channel I wish, and the Volume Pedal plugged into it should control all tracks assigned to that channel.

BTW ~ Receptor works exactly the way I've described above, with Sustain/Hold CC 64, so why not CC 7?

How do I handle this live?
Is there something I missed?
Is there a fix?

[DanTimis]

BTW ~ Receptor works exactly the way I've described above, with Sustain/Hold CC 64, so why not CC 7?

Sustain goes to the plug-in. Most plug-ins treat it as sustain, but it is up to the plug-in. For instance Garritan will treat it differently.

CC 7 is processed by Receptor itself. Imagine you have a MIDI faders device with 8 faders and you want to control the first 8 Receptor Channels each with its own separate fader. If all Receptor channels would respond to CC 7 on channel 1 you could not control the volume with separate faders. Unfortunately, that does not solve your problem, but it is a very common situation.

How do I handle this live?
Is there something I missed?
Is there a fix?

If all you are trying to do is create a layered instrument and you do not have anything else besides your instruments responding on MIDI channel 1, you could use the master fader.

The master fader responds to CC 14 on MIDI channel 16. If you can program your volume pedal to send CC 14 on MIDI channel 16 you could solve your problem this way.

Or you could use sends and use the fader of one of the FX Buses. They also respond to CC 14 on MIDI channels 1 and 2.

[JayVee]

Hi Dan,
I don't mean to give you a hard time, I love you guys, but this - for me, is a hugely serious issue.
So Sustain goes into Receptor, and travels to any plug-in that is on the same MIDI channel; I need Volume to work that way. I never expected not to have it as most multi-timbral (hardware) units work.

Why would you allow us to layer instruments, or split keyboards with the convenience of being able to assign any plug-in, which is on it's own track, to any of 16 channels, if I can't simultaneously, mix them?

I can't see myself having different volume control situations for different songs. I definetly can't use your Master volume suggestion.

Not sure I understand the suggestion about using Sends ~ but I'll eventually have over 100 performace set-ups ~ this would mean a totally new way to configure my Multis.
I read somewhere in this forum, that the next version might address similar issues with MIDI...

Don't even get me started about Garritan ~ I'm furious about the GPO mod-wheel/volume sitruation; that purcshase was a hasty purchase I've come to regret.

[mike2442]

why not use a midimapper.......
www.midisolutions.com

[tconrardy]

Hi JV

I don't know if this is what you are talking about, but on my EMU MP7, I have a volume and pan toggle for the 16 knobs that control vol and pan on receptor regardless of midi channel. Just tried it now. I can set my MP7 to send on chan 2 ( for example) and any receptor channel to any other midi channels, and it controls the volume by turning the appropriate knob on the MP7. I don't know what cc it is sending to the receptor ( guess I could look it up in the MP7 manual,) EDIT: CC7 ) but it appears its doing what you want it to do. HMMM

[DanTimis]

Sure Receptor could be more flexible on how it routes and processes MIDI. We are trying to make Receptor better and we will be adding more MIDI options.

However, I don't know how could we make this work easily. Imagine you build a simple layered instrument with B4 on the first Receptor channel and Albino on the second channel. You balance the volume of the two instruments by bringing the volume on channel 1 slightly up and the volume on channel 2 slightly down. Otherwise, Albino would be too loud next to B4.

If you were to control both with the same CC 7, if you sent a value of 100, both channels would be at 100 and Albino would be too loud. If you send 60 both channels go to 60 and Albino would be still too loud.

Most customers would want to be able to control the volume of the two channels independently with two MIDI faders. How would one achieve easily what you want without sacrificing the ability to control independently several channels?

[JayVee]

How would one achieve easily what you want without sacrificing the ability to control independently several channels?

By allowing me to choose : )
I totally understand the issues with the examples you've given....
But I've been dealing with those for years.
Can't you try to have an option in the main preferences, of how Receptor will handle the most common CC's ~ Hold, Volume, Modulation.

I'm going to need a work-around that doesn't require my taking my hands off the keys that I'm playing....

: (

What about the new version that's comming ~ is there any hope for this?

Thanks,

[tconrardy]

Most customers would want to be able to control the volume of the two channels independently with two MIDI faders. How would one achieve easily what you want without sacrificing the ability to control independently several channels?

But that is what I am doing with my MP7 setup. I wonder if there are additional settings on the MP7 that allow this to happen, and you can't do it with the pedals?

[JayVee]

Well, I took a look at the MP7, and to be perfectly honest, I really don't want to get any more hardware; my main purpose for moving to the Receptor, was to dump my close to 60 pound XV-88 and XV-5080 rack...
I want less stuff to fly with and have to cary around.
I honestly didn't anticipate a complication like this.
I appreciate your thoughts ~ thanks.

I really think Receptor should have some sort of an option, as I described above, on it's Graphic UI Setup:

'...where you configure Receptor to integrate with your studio, your network and your preferred way of working.'

Quote taken from page 117 of the manual.

[DanTimis]

What about the new version that's comming ~ is there any hope for this?

Unfortunately it is too late for the upcoming version. We will try to have more flexibility with MIDI CC's in the version after that.

[JayVee]

Okay, Dan ~ thanks.
I believe I can work with that.

Without 'writing it in stone', when is the next update expected?; and aproximately how many months before the following one?

[tconrardy]

Well, I took a look at the MP7, and to be perfectly honest, I really don't want to get any more hardware; .

I guess what I am trying to understand is WHY the MP7 can do what you are wanting ( isn't it?)There must be a way to trasfer that tech to say another knob box, or the way your pedals are configured.

but maybe I'm not fully understanding what you want to do, and I am just shooting off

[JayVee]

Hey TC,

I simply want my volume pedals to control ALL tracks I have assigned to the same MIDI channel.

So that if I have layered 2 string parts on MIDI Ch.2, when the keyboard I use is set to Ch.2 - my volume pedal would raise or lower BOTH of those parts ~ regardless of what Track they are on in my Receptor.

Just like the sustain-pedal works

That's exactly what I want.

: )

[philosorhymes]

Correct me if I am wrong but shouldn't a CC as essential as Volume be bound to a MIDI channel rather than a channel track? Surely, this would aid better integration especially as it is the standard.

Muse is essentially like a sound module or keyboard that is always in multipart mode (but with a lot more power I know). If I had my korg in multi-part mode (correctly named sequencer mode), I could tell track 15 to use MIDI channel 1 and it would thus respond to CC's coming in on MIDI channel 1 likewise for my S90.

We should consider this:- Most software instruments and standard equipment use CC7 for volume as default:- Hence if MUSE is intercepting it, we'd have to start re-assigning CC's for each plugins volume control if we wanted to control them individually right?

Wouldn't it be wise if MUSE allowed CC 7 through on a per channel basis (MIDI that is) and then used some sort of SYSEX for actual MUSE channel track volumes? This makes the box much more configurable. Or would that be too hard and make it incompatible with simpler controllers?

[DanTimis]

Wouldn't it be wise if MUSE allowed CC 7 through on a per channel basis (MIDI that is) and then used some sort of SYSEX for actual MUSE channel track volumes? This makes the box much more configurable. Or would that be too hard and make it incompatible with simpler controllers?

There are controllers that can send a program change, but no bank select, or some that can send Bank LSB, but no MSB. There are controllers that cannot be programmed to send NRPN's (that's the reason we also have regular CC's to control front panel parameters).

Yes, theoretically it would make sense to use SYSEX, but practically it would severely limit the MIDI controllers that would work with Receptor.