Feature suggestion for EVE 2! beta 1 available

[kpr]

Apart from this, what I really want is detailed, quality sample sets, in the tradition of the mellotron and the F1SR. That is, sample sets focussed on particular synths, with detailed sampling, rather than sample sets with a whole grab of stuff. When are BITR gonna realease that solina set for EVE? This is the type of thing I mean. Fairlight and Orchestron would also be good and very unique addition if you could somehow get some good, extensive samples, as would a extensively detailed rhodes set.

Cross modulation sounds good too.

I want the ultimate one stop retro box.

The Solina for EVE is still in the pipeline and I hope we can release very soon. Currently we´re working really hard on several new products and this includes that kind of in-depth libraries for EVE what you´ve mentioned above.

[Bassballjg]

Cross-mod means to me audio-level modulation of one oscillator by another. AM, amplitude modulation aka ring mosulation(when only the sum but not the componant sounds are heard in the end), and FM, ferqurncy modulation, or, more precicely, its phase distortion variant, as in the DX and CZ series.

Simple but powerful would be what you would have if you have a three-oscillator sample player with multimode filters, expanded effects, one or two assignable multistage envelopes and the mentioned cross-mod possibilities. Those tools, in a user-friendly interface would give a lot of sonic bang for the buck. It would not require a really deep menu system to inpliment these things, perhaps some buttons with drop-down options, but nothing more than one click away.

In re envelopes, I do see having just one which would essentially constitute an oscilator morph function, that is, basically a sophisticated crossfader. Loopable would be even better. I do like that style of envelope, but it is less important to me to have that as the design for all onboard envelopes than is the AM/FM capacity.

Luigi, I just realized that when you mention adding generators, you may be referring to new osillator types in addition to just the sample players. That does open up some interesting prospects, I must say. Could you elaborate more if that is what you mean?

pw, I think that we are largely in agreement, especially about effects, but your posts may be emphasizing sample content whereas mine have been more concerned with what happens once the samples are loaded. I do want EVE to be a vintage machine(if you'll pardon the pun). But as long as you can load any DASHsnd in EVE, it is more than a vintage player only, and what it is to each user is up to them as they choose their soundsets. You have a very good idea about having more soundsets that are focused on a detailed pallate of a single instrument, or family of instruments.

In terms of effects, I'd like to see added a copy of the filter as an effect algorithm so as to have a master filter, spring reverb, amp sim, and bit crusher. What may be needed to impliment an expanded pool of effects algorithms is to switch from the approach of having dedicated effects modules to a system of 2-4 multieffects units each with an effect select menu. That may sound complex, but it can be a very easy interface. See Sampletank as an example of how this can be done in very little space and with absolute clarity.

[damstraversaz]

bad nglish here

But as long as you can load any DASHsnd in EVE, it is more than a vintage player only, and what it is to each user is up to them as they choose their soundsets. You have a very good idea about having more soundsets that are focused on a detailed pallate of a single instrument, or family of instruments.

i'm totally agree.

so we have some options (in no order) we should stream down:

1) EVE = Retro machine, extreme focus on effects quality and vintage emulation, filters FXs, detailed sampling
2) EVE with one multistage envelope (amplitude?) with triggers to sequence the OSCs which still keep the individual ADSR, Pad oriented EVE, one-page GUI
3) EVE + 9 multistage envelope: amp, filter and pitch for each Osc
4) EVE with internal generators, oscillator cross-mod (?), more than a vintage keys player only,

difficult choice...I like your synths, because they have a very good concept: very good quality and good interface ( easy to understand,so easy to use). for me is the most important. I can use eve as an instrument, like a musician.i don't think I could do the same with very complexe vsti or a monster vtsi.

and I think Eve is your baby, so your choice will be the best choice, just because you made it and you will do the best for this instrument

[liqih]

hi all,


will reply more later, now I'm setting up a poll, <grin>

[liqih]

another look

[Bassballjg]

Let's see, does the FM section work by those knobs being sends for an FM oscilator to the sample oscilators, under the control of that adsr? That might can work. What if you add a ring modulator as an effect algorithm? By the way, I'm loving that fixed pitch button on you-know-what, any chance of getting that into EVE?

Whatever the outcome, EVE 2.0 will be a great upgrade based on any combination these discussed possibilities.

[Cabinfever]

Without a multistage of some sort ( or a filter ADSR env) the envelope controls of E2 are inferior to E1.

Also, no "wizards" for E2 ?

And does the LFO section with the little sliders indicate three possible LFO's per oscillator ? Personally I'd prefer just one LFO, but have a selectable waveform, sync options & destination. I think that theory fits much better into the "few controls, but powerful" idea.

In fact why not chop out the LFO section completely and make an LFO insert effect ? Then perhaps there could be much less standard controls per oscillator, but have three effects slots. That sort of makes sense anyway - three oscillators, three slots.

I don't understand the FM section. And although it's not included here, I vote strongly against ring-mod. It's weak, especially compared with oscillator cross-modulation.

Also I think from a marketing point of view there needs to be a few special things happening with E2. Otherwise two or three E1's will blow away an E2, and consequently what reason will there be to buy the big sister ? What do people get excited about ?

I don't mean to just have some gimmick. I mean at least one really unique clever thing which gives E2 a unique ability.

This is the difference between "going shopping" with all the standard synth controls and choosing a few; and having inspiration.

I think this design has nothing special or interesting, nothing that will make anyone start fiddling with their credit card and thinking "hmmm, yes, I could do some great stuff with *that* feature...".

All of which is very easy to say of course, but I hope you get my meaning.

[diversheat]

Resonance! It needs resonance!

[liqih]

Let's see, does the FM section work by those knobs being sends for an FM oscilator to the sample oscilators, under the control of that adsr? That might can work. What if you add a ring modulator as an effect algorithm? By the way, I'm loving that fixed pitch button on you-know-what, any chance of getting that into EVE?

Whatever the outcome, EVE 2.0 will be a great upgrade based on any combination these discussed possibilities.

thanks,

the fixed pitch is possible, should be no problem to add that


FM works like this:

modulator>>>frequency of any of the 3 sample player

modulation depth has 3 controls,
amount, LFO and ADSR

I tried that today and sounds are very interesting,
even though needs work to tame the aliasing

[liqih]

Without a multistage of some sort ( or a filter ADSR env) the envelope controls of E2 are inferior to E1.

why that ??

Also, no "wizards" for E2 ?

this mainly depends if we'd keep compatibility with previous EVE, it's a problem of development economy

And does the LFO section with the little sliders indicate three possible LFO's per oscillator ?

same as before

Personally I'd prefer just one LFO, but have a selectable waveform, sync options & destination. I think that theory fits much better into the "few controls, but powerful" idea.

again a compatibility issue, the current 1000+
EVE presets need 9 LFOs

In fact why not chop out the LFO section completely and make an LFO insert effect ? Then perhaps there could be much less standard controls per oscillator, but have three effects slots. That sort of makes sense anyway - three oscillators, three slots.

yes, that's a good idea too, but you'll lose the indipendent autopans, vibrato and tremolo you have now at the same time of the other effects Moodulator and Echo

I don't understand the FM section. And although it's not included here, I vote strongly against ring-mod. It's weak, especially compared with oscillator cross-modulation.

cross-modulation in Korg Mono/Poly is frequency modulation from one VCO against the others,
which can be synced or not to the first.

this can't work nicely with the multisamples, but only with VA simple waveform oscillators,

my design of FM in EVE 2 is what I devised
to get close to that, you can get intersting sweeps
of harmonics from the multisamples, I tried that with
pianos and mellotron sounds, will post some examples

Also I think from a marketing point of view there needs to be a few special things happening with E2. Otherwise two or three E1's will blow away an E2, and consequently what reason will there be to buy the big sister ? What do people get excited about ?

maybe about that FM once you heard it,
or the new FXs I'm going to add,

I don't mean to just have some gimmick. I mean at least one really unique clever thing which gives E2 a unique ability.

how many multisample player got that FM?
anyway by the crrent poll result, so far looks like
users are more interested in vintage effects and quality multisamples rather then any envelope,

maybe envelope stuff is more appreciated by synth geeks, <grin>

This is the difference between "going shopping" with all the standard synth controls and choosing a few; and having inspiration.

I see what you mean

I think this design has nothing special or interesting, nothing that will make anyone start fiddling with their credit card and thinking "hmmm, yes, I could do some great stuff with *that* feature...".


All of which is very easy to say of course, but I hope you get my meaning.

yes, no problem

[liqih]

BTW I know that few people would agree on this, but I think that "sync to tempo" is not always good,

in the "retro" era musicians used to adjust by ear the modulation groove to the beat, and to me that sound more musical (in some genres) and adeguate to the EVE retro concept than a perfect digital sync,

radical chic?!, LOL

[liqih]

Simple but powerful would be what you would have if you have a three-oscillator sample player with multimode filters, expanded effects, one or two assignable multistage envelopes and the mentioned cross-mod possibilities. Those tools, in a user-friendly interface would give a lot of sonic bang for the buck. It would not require a really deep menu system to inpliment these things, perhaps some buttons with drop-down options, but nothing more than one click away.

thanks for the vision

Luigi, I just realized that when you mention adding generators, you may be referring to new osillator types in addition to just the sample players. That does open up some interesting prospects, I must say. Could you elaborate more if that is what you mean?

this is the other idea to make EVE 2 a hybrid VSTi, basically adding a two operators FM synth to the whole

In terms of effects, I'd like to see added a copy of the filter as an effect algorithm so as to have a master filter, spring reverb, amp sim, and bit crusher. What may be needed to impliment an expanded pool of effects algorithms is to switch from the approach of having dedicated effects modules to a system of 2-4 multieffects units each with an effect select menu. That may sound complex, but it can be a very easy interface. See Sampletank as an example of how this can be done in very little space and with absolute clarity.

it seems to me that two slots for avy effect are enough for EVE 2

[pw]

Ahh Liqih, you beat me to it- I was thinking about the cross modulation ideas, and was going to post that instead, maybe each layer could have FM with a hidden modulator, like in Crystal, and exactly like you have just implemented in the latest mock-up.

I think this is great, and I will echo BassballJG's suggestion of adding RingMod to this as well, maybe keep the FM section as is, but clicking on the 'FM' text, or knob, toggles between FM and RING.

Everything else seems really good, with the interchangeable effects for instance. I also think the two effects slots are enough. And now I see that maintaining compatibility with EVE 1.8 presets is also a good thing and should be taken into account in any design.

However,I have now become quite attached the the single, multistage envelope idea, as bringing some interesting vector style synthesis to EVE 2. Once again, I do feel it is keeping with the concept of EVE, and I think this, *with* the FM implementation you have mocked up above, would be a killer combination. Really, it could be a vector triangle, rather than a long envelope- like in augur and zero vector.

About sync to tempo- I don't need it, I like 'radical chic'.

Anyway, in the end, I own many of your products because I really like your ideas and approach to ease of use and simplicity in your VST's, so, whatever you eventually decide on will most likely be good for me!

[Cabinfever]

I'm still attached to the one multistage envelope idea too.

But I can live without synced LFOs.

Now that it's explained a I do really like the FM concept here. Look forward to an MP3. Maybe an LFO routed in there might be nice too ? (Yes I am a synth geek).

Also in the poll I'm not surprised that people vote for more sample sets. If there was a choice between getting an Eve 2 and getting more sample sets I'd choose more samples. I think the poll really distorts the thinking here. Sample sets are a separate part of Eve, not a case of new features OR new samples....

And a lot of the feature list seems to be caught by the issue of backwards compatibility.

But couldn't you get around that issue by just making Eve original free with Eve 2 ?

It makes a kind of "three sisters" concept: EO, E1, E2, where you can use all the same samples, but the controls are quite different with each one. There's an obvious package deal in there.

In fact a slightly more ambitious idea would be to reskin Eve and add just a couple of "keys-specific" controls: that's be the "keys machine". You'd also then make E2, but go down the "synth geek / pads" road.

Now you do not have to decide between keys & pads, or backwards compatible or not, instead there is a versatile "family" of machines.

Perhaps this might be appealing to third-party developers too ?

[Bassballjg]

I think we're getting somwhere here, and there are a lot of good ideas coming forward.

As I was saying in the poll thread, it looks like, from the two mockups there, that the FM section is counterposed as an option to the Multienvelope due to spatial considerations in the interface, and keeping it the same size. What if the instrument's panel were simply made just that much bigger, to house both? That would make EVE 2 a real killer synth.

Two fx slots is plenty, I'm only concerned about the idea of selectable multi-fx modules, so now I'm happy with that.

I get the FM implimentation and I like the scheme. This will add a lot to the ability to get a lot of new sounds out of the samples. I do like pw's idea to have an option for FM or ringmod.

If the multienvelope is implimented, I'd like it to be loopable.

In any event, with this momentum, and the concepts that are being refined in this thread, I think it will be proven by the time EVE 2 comes out that simple can be deep.